Hello everyone. Well looks like I no longer get to creep on here silently. Partypoker's customer service team might kill me of heartattack at 28 so i must vent my frustrations somewhere before this happens lol and any extra help is appreciated. This hand happened to me a few days ago, and I am still unclear how it was allowed or if anyone has experienced anything similar. Even after speaking to one of there SUPERVISORS named " JACKIE ". I asked her, what is the minimum bet that must be made in order to reopen the betting for both me and "acewise"? She literally could not answer the question, EVEN AFTER "CHECKING WITH HER TEAM for 15 mins". She insisted the hand was played fine and if I have any further complaints, to SEND A EMAIL to their complaint team lol standard. It is actually absurd how terrible the customer service team can be, depending on who is reviewing your case. Again, It's even more unbelievable that you have a supervisor reviewing a hand like this, that cannot tell me what the minimum bet must be in order to reopen the betting. But the hand was played perfectly fine? how the f@%% does that make any sense. What are the qualifications for these positions? Not proficient with the english language with little knowledge of poker?


Every pro I have reviewed this hand with says it has was a malfunction. I was even lucky enough to have patrick serda sitting next to kenny hallaert and have them both agree. So please tell me why "aceraise" was given the option to rejam here... how is the mininum amount to reopen the betting not at least 101k total? what am I missing here? And how is party so reluctant to just admit their mistake and work out a solution so I feel protected that this won't happen again and if it does, at least they're willing to work with you... i just don't get it. But here's hand in question. My user is durrrscousinlol, how was acewise giving the option to rejam here and not forced to flat? How am I also not given the same option? Thanks

#Game No : 18151158817
***** Hand History for Game 18151158817 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $22 USD Buy-in Trny:193960008 Level:18 Blinds-Antes(2.5K/5K -600) - Tuesday, January 08, 16:37:58 CST 2019
Table Bounty Hunter Fast. $15K Gtd (193960008) Table #8 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 8/8
Seat 4: AceWise2010 ( 315,332 )
Seat 8: Adielsson ( 321,273 )
Seat 1: Darius290685 ( 54,382 )
Seat 5: ProVRc4 ( 110,371 )
Seat 7: SOS90210 ( 83,035 )
Seat 3: andre.fsg ( 126,198 )
Seat 2: durrrscousinlol ( 178,243 )
Seat 6: spitznspots ( 115,474 )
Trny:193960008 Level:18
Blinds-Antes(2,500/5,000 -600)
Darius290685 posts ante [600]
durrrscousinlol posts ante [600]
andre.fsg posts ante [600]
AceWise2010 posts ante [600]
ProVRc4 posts ante [600]
spitznspots posts ante [600]
SOS90210 posts ante [600]
Adielsson posts ante [600]
SOS90210 posts small blind [2,500].
Adielsson posts big blind [5,000].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to durrrscousinlol [ Qs Ks ]
Darius290685 is all-In [53,782]
durrrscousinlol calls [53,782]
andre.fsg folds
AceWise2010 calls [53,782]
ProVRc4 folds
spitznspots folds
SOS90210 is all-In [79,935]
Adielsson folds
Your time bank will be activated in 6 secs. If you do not want it to be used, please act now.
durrrscousinlol calls [28,653]
AceWise2010 is all-In [260,950]
durrrscousinlol is all-In [95,208]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jh, 8h, 5d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
** Dealing River ** [ Js ]
Darius290685 shows [ Ac, Kc ]two pairs, Jacks and Fives with Ace kicker.
durrrscousinlol shows [ Qs, Ks ]two pairs, Jacks and Fives.
AceWise2010 shows [ Kd, Ah ]two pairs, Jacks and Fives with Ace kicker.
SOS90210 shows [ 9d, As ]two pairs, Jacks and Fives with Ace kicker.
AceWise2010 wins 137,089 chips from the side pot 3 with two pairs, Jacks and Fives with Ace kicker.
AceWise2010 wins 190,416 chips from the side pot 2 with two pairs, Jacks and Fives with Ace kicker.
SOS90210 wins 42,980 chips from the side pot 1 with two pairs, Jacks and Fives with Ace kicker.
AceWise2010 wins 42,979 chips from the side pot 1 with two pairs, Jacks and Fives with Ace kicker.
Darius290685 wins 74,976 chips from the main pot with two pairs, Jacks and Fives with Ace kicker.
SOS90210 wins 74,976 chips from the main pot with two pairs, Jacks and Fives with Ace kicker.
AceWise2010 wins 74,976 chips from the main pot with two pairs, Jacks and Fives with Ace kicker.
Player durrrscousinlol finished in 176.
AceWise2010 has knocked out durrrscousinlol and won a $31.63 USD bounty prize.

First - don't expect a customer service supervisor to have answers about game play. Not a pit boss. Can resolve issues about being disconnected and such, but doubtful would have poker play knowledge.

As to decision, it actually makes sense if the rule is that if the all-in bet is more than half the amount of a full raise, it counts as a raise and reopens the betting.

The first all-in was a raise of 48782 over the big blind. The second shove was a raise of 26153 more than the first raise, which is MORE than half of a full raise. (barely but it's more than half.) So, check the Partypoker rules to see if this is, in fact, the rule (typical). If so, then the play was correct.

Wall of text. I didn't read your spiel atop the hand history.

Fold pre to the jam.

How do you know it isn't site rules that a raise for less than a minraise (or half a minraise as KGC above said; I guess some places it's a minraise, some half a minraise, etc.) still opens the action? Be honest, have you comprehensively read the site gameplay rules? It's their cardroom, they make the rules, and their rules might be different from casinos or other sites you've played at.

These things don't just glitch and malfunction like this. Clearly, their rules allow for these sizings to keep the action open.

Who cares what "Patrick Serda" and "Kenny Hallert" have to say. Willing to bet they didn't read the rules, either.

"Be honest, have you comprehensively read the site gameplay rules? It's their cardroom, they make the rules, and their rules might be different from casinos or other sites you've played at."

LOL no, I've only been playing online for 10 years, must of been something I missed within the 10-year span lol if you weren't so ignorant and read my "spiel" you would have seen that I stated I asked the supervisor overlooking my case. "After the initial all in, what is the minimum bet that must be made in order to reopen the betting?" not only could she not answer the question, she could not point me to such ruling. (completely absurd coming from a poker supervisor i must add. So by all means, find this partypoker ruling and show it to me to prove me wrong, otherwise, your argument is pointless.

A " half bet " rule online would make absolutely zero sense. The only reason this rule is put in place at most live casinos, is to protect players from angling. For example, at my casino, guy makes it 100, I can put in 195 without verbalizing it, and they will hold me to 100 and does not constitute as a raise unless I verbally say raise. Now, in the bettor's mind, he thinks I meant to raise which usually will lead to a river check. Which is something I see done when a guy has a mediocre hand that doesn't want to call both turn and river. So essentially u get a free river. Also, if villain still leads river after seeing this, you know he's usually nutted. THIS IS THE ONLY REASON FOR THAT RULING TO AVOID SITUATIONS AS STATED ABOVE. TO HAVE THIS RULING ONLINE WOULD MAKE ZERO SENSE. Which is why no online poker company would implement this ruling for any reason.

Not to mention, anyone that plays online for a living, will frequently see spots where you either size perfectly to reopen the betting, or make a size where certain stacks cannot, depending on what you are trying to accomplish. And never have a seen a " half-bet " reopen the betting to this day.

Also anyone who plays professionally, on partypoker, firing 5 and 10k's on the regular. I think they're opinion does matter. There is no professional player out there, firing $10,000 buy ins online, that doesn't know when the betting is allowed to be reopened or not lol However on the other hand. A person such as yourself, who clearly doesn't even play on party, probably doesn't play online ( i don't know which site you've been on that a half size bet of the original open, reopens the betting) That's an opinion of a person I may want to dismiss.


Last but not least. KevGchapman. Please explain to which pitboss you're talking about. Exactly who am i to speak to when the supervisor stated several times, there is no one above her that I can speak to. Why do you think I went here? Do you not understand how aggravating it can be, when the person overlooking your case can't even give you a ruling but all the can say is " sir, as we checked, the hand was played fine, and there is nothing we can do " ZERO RULING, ZERO HELP IN FINDING SUCH RULING, AND NOONE ELSE I CAN SPEAK TO? Sounds a bit fishy to me. So please explain to me now, who would I speak to about this? Yea, I'll just call up sexton. Gimme a sec.

why not go allin yourself if betting is open?!

"Last but not least. KevGchapman. Please explain to which pitboss you're talking about. Exactly who am i to speak to when the supervisor stated several times, there is no one above her that I can speak to. Why do you think I went here? Do you not understand how aggravating it can be, when the person overlooking your case can't even give you a ruling but all the can say is " sir, as we checked, the hand was played fine, and there is nothing we can do " ZERO RULING, ZERO HELP IN FINDING SUCH RULING, AND NOONE ELSE I CAN SPEAK TO? Sounds a bit fishy to me. So please explain to me now, who would I speak to about this? Yea, I'll just call up sexton. Gimme a sec."

LOL -- all I was saying is that when you call up customer service, you're not talking to a real pit boss, you're talking to a customer service supervisor in a call center who deals with log-in problems and maybe cashier malfunctions, and disconnect issues and geo-location glitches, etc. I would not expect that person to be a "pit boss" with great knowledge of poker game play issues, because they don't generally come up in calls to customer service. ["Hello, can you explain to me why my A, 2, 3, 4, 5 straight didn't beat a 2, 3,4, 5,6 straight when mine was ace-high??"]

WSOP rules allow for the half-size bet rule to reopen betting in pot limit games, but not no-limit games. But I have not read the party-poker game play rules.

This forum is for questions regarding strategy. There is a sub-forum on this site for questions regarding the technical aspects of the sites, "Internet Poker." You will find answers to questions like this there, and major site have reps who will respond to your queries in that forum.

Since this is a strategy forum, the only question that is worthy of discussion here is whether you played the hand correctly or not. The question of whether Villian should have been able to push over the top is immaterial to the purpose of this forum. IMO flatting two raises with KsQs for a combined total of almost half your chips is not a winning play. I think you should either push over the top of the first raise, or fold pre-flop.

Yeah, I don't want to get into the specifics of why the OP wasn't able to reopen the betting but the other player was, because frankly I don't know. It does impact the way you think about the hand if you believe the big stack isn't going to be able to reopen the betting as to whether you call the additional raise.

But as to the hand itself, I think all of our options have some merit. I think iso'ing for 35BB with KQs vs. an 11BB UTG jam is pretty ambitious, although we should fold some better hands from those yet to act (like Ax and middle pairs) and if UTG is playing close to Nash we should be +EV against their range. I do think flatting here is ok if we think players yet to act are unlikely to repop light and will play honestly against the UTG/UTG+1 dynamic, knowing we can consider folding to big stack reshoves. I think folding vs. UTG open can make sense if UTG is super nitty but I tend to like it the least.

As played, I'm a bit concerned about the big stack flatting rather than iso jamming because it just screams inducement. And once the big stack backraise shoves, regardless of whether they should've been able to, this spot gets gross. Maybe it's still ok to call with KQs here since we might be as good as 30% vs. the big stack's range, but it feels marginal and 19BB is still a somewhat playable stack.