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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 09-08-2020, 12:35 PM   #1
MyBeardisEvil
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Overvalued two pair?

Pacific Poker - 600/1200 Ante 150 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 38.92 BB
SB: 78.56 BB
Hero (BB): 92.1 BB
UTG: 52.83 BB
UTG+1: 83.97 BB
MP: 69.24 BB
MP+1: 85.52 BB
MP+2: 30.07 BB
CO: 250.7 BB

9 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.62 BB) Hero has K 8

fold, fold, MP raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 2 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 1 BB

Flop: (7.62 BB, 3 players) K 9 8
Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks

Turn: (7.62 BB, 3 players) A
Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks

River: (7.62 BB, 3 players) 7
Hero checks, MP bets 5.03 BB, fold, Hero calls 5.03 BB

MP shows 8 8 (Three of a Kind, Eights)
(Pre 70%, Flop 86%, Turn 95%)
Hero mucks K 8 (Two Pair, Kings and Eights)
(Pre 30%, Flop 14%, Turn 5%)
MP wins 17.69 BB
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Old 09-08-2020, 01:50 PM   #2
PhatPots
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Re: Overvalued two pair?

I don't understand why you are checking the river as well here. If you check this river, it should be to checkraise. But after the flop and turn are checked, I would probably lead the river.
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Old 09-08-2020, 06:27 PM   #3
erc007
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Re: Overvalued two pair?

Was gonna say you lost the minimum but you only lose 1bb* (by folding pre) which is my preferred course of action. Can defend this combo HU a lot with an ante.

As played, I don't think we always need to probe turn when multiway...could be wrong but we def need to be probing river close to 100%. Only question is sizing...I like ~60%.

*Doubt this combo loses <1bb by overcalling vs MP+CO. If sooted overcall is fine tho.

P.S. Try to get in more games/pots with MP imo...
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Old 09-08-2020, 11:52 PM   #4
Colin_Piddle
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Re: Overvalued two pair?

A very strange hand played by all. MP checking twice with a set on that board is just criminal. I'd def lead turn I think we can get a lot of value from AQ, AJ, A10
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Old 09-09-2020, 02:53 AM   #5
Madsaac
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Re: Overvalued two pair?

Yeah probably bet the turn
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Old 09-09-2020, 06:55 PM   #6
MyBeardisEvil
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Re: Overvalued two pair?

thank you guys!
so I overcalled and should have folded prelop? learning a lot here
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Old 09-10-2020, 07:58 AM   #7
wynner88888
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Re: Overvalued two pair?

Undervalued two pair. Again would like to know stake
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Old 09-10-2020, 05:48 PM   #8
lolposting2016
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Re: Overvalued two pair?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erc007 View Post
Was gonna say you lost the minimum but you only lose 1bb* (by folding pre) which is my preferred course of action. Can defend this combo HU a lot with an ante.

As played, I don't think we always need to probe turn when multiway...could be wrong but we def need to be probing river close to 100%. Only question is sizing...I like ~60%.

*Doubt this combo loses <1bb by overcalling vs MP+CO. If sooted overcall is fine tho.

P.S. Try to get in more games/pots with MP imo...
Pre is completely standard vs the min raise folding would be nitty af and giving up a lot. K8 is pretty much the threshold here though
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Old 09-10-2020, 05:55 PM   #9
Bubblebust
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Re: Overvalued two pair?

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Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
Pre is completely standard vs the min raise folding would be nitty af and giving up a lot. K8 is pretty much the threshold here though
How can folding both be "nitty af and giving up a lot" and "pretty much the threshold", which means approaching neutral EV?
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Old 09-10-2020, 06:10 PM   #10
erc007
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Re: Overvalued two pair?

Not arguing/disputing your ranges...just wondering what differences (if any) exist between your calling and overcalling ranges? Obv we get > direct odds to overcall but our RIO increasess and our equity realization (with offsoot combos) decreases as well.

P.S. Nitty I can accept but "nitty af," could prompt introspection.
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Old 09-11-2020, 12:19 AM   #11
lolposting2016
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Re: Overvalued two pair?

Pio pf can help with this kinda stuff. K8 is getting in there pure vs the 2x (and we don’t have to worry about rake cuz it’s a mtt) in 6max cash rake solution k8 basically the bottom of a defend range vs the 2-2.25x if I’m remembering correctly, and vs 2.5x it starts getting dicey. 3x it’s a pure fold. So like if we aren’t paying rake you’re defending I think all the way down to like k4o. But I’m rusty and haven’t been studying.
If you wanna cheat a little bit and not buy pio edge go on rio and check out sauce vid I think it’s rake vs non rake environments. That’s the vid that made me spring for edge to start running pf sims.
Obviously if you’re like otb vpiping here is silly but with one bb invested and only 1bb to see 3 k8 has easily enough high card strength to just flop a k and be good a ton
Ya folding k8o is nitty af and would be pretty bad from what I know.


But also idk how the pot being 3way matters I guess you just say pot odds let’s play all the work I’ve done has been in hu spots

Last edited by lolposting2016; 09-11-2020 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 09-11-2020, 12:32 AM   #12
lolposting2016
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Re: Overvalued two pair?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblebust View Post
How can folding both be "nitty af and giving up a lot" and "pretty much the threshold", which means approaching neutral EV?
Donít read to much into it. Take the advice or leave it up to u man. I just come on here cuz Iím bored sometimes and like talking poker
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