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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 03-16-2019, 08:01 PM   #1
Dtrain555
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New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

Hpt main level 12

AKs utg
70k
600/1200 1200 bba

I raise to 3k
Utg+2 flats (60k) has flatted AA twice and QQ once

Mp goes all in 13k

I call, utg+2 jams

47k to win 86k

Should I have moved in instead of calling?
Iíve been playing well and donít want to flip for stacks given I think I have been outplaying the table post. Iím also not properly rolled for tournaments and I have a really large stack compared to the table.

Did I induce a jam from utg+2?
Could they have a worse Ax? It would be horrible to fold if they have AQ.
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:57 PM   #2
xamlop
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

You block AA/KK I think this is a reshove to isolate the shortstack with that hand and those stacks regardless of reads.
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Old 03-16-2019, 09:40 PM   #3
Makeup
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

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You block AA/KK I think this is a reshove to isolate the shortstack with that hand and those stacks regardless of reads.
Iím sure talking about blockers is really gonna help out a new tournament player
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Old 03-16-2019, 09:56 PM   #4
Dtrain555
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

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Iím sure talking about blockers is really gonna help out a new tournament player
I understand blockers and crush my local cash games.
What I donít know is how to think about spots in tournaments?

Cash and tournaments are different beasts. And there are important differences right?
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:16 PM   #5
Makeup
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

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I understand blockers and crush my local cash games.
What I donít know is how to think about spots in tournaments?

Cash and tournaments are different beasts. And there are important differences right?
Tournament complexities mostly come about when thereís icm and when you are below 50bbs. If you crush those local cash games Iím sure you arenít in the business of folding AKs to a back jam
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:22 PM   #6
Dtrain555
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

No I called it off but it just sucks playing for five hours and having it all come down to one hand.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:11 PM   #7
persianpunisher
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

ISO jam.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:23 PM   #8
jjpregler
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

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Originally Posted by Dtrain555 View Post
No I called it off but it just sucks playing for five hours and having it all come down to one hand.
That's tournament poker. You cannot be afraid to bust. You should only be afraid of mistakes. Getting the money in with $EV is never a mistake.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:27 AM   #9
oldsilver
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

Iso jam with blockers to AA KK even if V is uncapped pre
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Old 03-17-2019, 09:31 AM   #10
wynner88888
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

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Originally Posted by Dtrain555 View Post
Should I have moved in instead of calling?
Iíve been playing well and donít want to flip for stacks given I think I have been outplaying the table post. Iím also not properly rolled for tournaments and I have a really large stack compared to the table.

Did I induce a jam from utg+2?
Could they have a worse Ax? It would be horrible to fold if they have AQ.
Its an obvious isolation shove, but I understand where youíre coming from about not wanting to flip for stacks. Unfortunately thereís too much logic here favouring a shove rather than fold.
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Old 03-17-2019, 09:52 AM   #11
Dtrain555
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

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Originally Posted by wynner88888 View Post
Its an obvious isolation shove, but I understand where youíre coming from about not wanting to flip for stacks. Unfortunately thereís too much logic here favouring a shove rather than fold.
So would 88+, ATs+, AJo+ seem like a reasonable range to iso?
And what should utg+2 call with?
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:16 AM   #12
wynner88888
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

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So would 88+, ATs+, AJo+ seem like a reasonable range to iso?
And what should utg+2 call with?
Personally Iíd say thats a little loose in this spot, but I might play tighter than a lot of others. Maybe AQ+ 99+ although Iíd feel more comfortable with AK+ JJ+, especially considering history with V
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:21 AM   #13
wynner88888
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

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Originally Posted by Dtrain555 View Post
So would 88+, ATs+, AJo+ seem like a reasonable range to iso?
And what should utg+2 call with?
UTG2ís range should vary based on reads. Are you playing nitty, tight aggressive, loose? Maybe JJ+ AK but his iso shoving range after your call may be a wider. Again that could be based on reads, whether or not youíve been slow playing high pocket pairs or getting the chips in with less than premium hands etc
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:24 AM   #14
jjpregler
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtrain555 View Post
So would 88+, ATs+, AJo+ seem like a reasonable range to iso?
And what should utg+2 call with?
Here is the way I would analyze this away from the table:

Your pot odds = 2.2:1
Break even equity = 31.3%

In MTTs, you do not want to call off with break even equity. You always want an edge for a couple reasons: 1) even in early MTTs there is at least small ICM pressure, even if it is only about 5%; 2) Survival has some value in MTTs; and 3) Skill edge has some value in MTTs.

Quite often, players will over-estimate the survival and skill edges in MTTs and pass up clearly great spots for fear of busting. Jonathan Little, from whom I received most of my coaching, uses 3% - 5% additional equity and Alex "Assasinato" Fitzgerald uses a straight 5% additional equity. While their numbers are different, their methods are very similar, so I use them in combination.

In the middle stages, I tend to use 4% additional equity until we start reaching the early bubble stages, when I go up to 5%. In late bubble I attempt to estimate the ICM instead.

But here my call off equity = 35%.

Next I compare at least 3 ranges: 1) the worst case scenario; a best case scenario; and a middle case.

Here I think the worst case is premiums only: JJ+ and AK. The best case is about 10% of hands. And the middle case will be around 6% of hands.

Of course some villains may be outside the best or worst case, but I would suspect about 90% of the player pool to be within these ranges.

Best case equity: 59%

Worst case equity: 43%

Middle case equity: 52%

So the continue is easy. Whether we call or shove is now the question.

Assuming the UTG+2 range, he may have 20% - 30% of range here. If he calls off with the worst case hands above, he will be folding about 90% of the time. So only 10% of the time are you against that range.

The other ranges, you don't care if he calls off with those as you would be dominating hands in the range which would offset the times you are in a PP versus AK.

However, just calling allows him to stick around with a ton of hands that have equity against you that would prefer he folds. Hands like JTs, 33, and 75s. If you can make him fold away "equity" you win that equity.

Additionally, if he has a premium hand he may shove himself, but you couldn't fold to his shove as you would be getting 43% against his tightest shoving range.

So shoving is clearly right, and I would suspect that shoving would probably be right with almost your whole range that you want to call.

Last edited by jjpregler; 03-17-2019 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:36 AM   #15
Dtrain555
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

Ok thanks that’s really helpful
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:24 AM   #16
wowsooooted
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Re: New to Tourneys, Call it off pre?

Yep shoving all day here, flatting in 3b pot when your oop for 3 streets is not good.

As mentioned blockers is pretty important here, we remove 50% of the combos of AA and 50% of the combos of KK
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