First off, you don't want to play 3 way flops 40bb deep because your chances of winning the hand drop dramatically, even with kings. You're at a stage of the tournament where every hand, especially a 3 bet hand, is crucial to tournament success. So you want to play with every advantage you can get. Secondly, you don't want to avoid the original raiser from peeling, but you want to make his call unprofitable ( aka not good). If you keep making small 3 bets, you're going to keep getting called light (correctly).

Your logic on the turn check makes no sense. Are you checking so villain bluffs, or to save stack (maybe I'm reading this wrong)? You have a premium hand, that beats 95% of villains range. You're not playing a 3 bet pot to 'save stack.' In regards to villain's bluff heavy tendencies, sure you'll get him to make some bluffs on the river, but you'll get MORE chips by betting the turn, because it hit's his range well. Plus it's never a great idea to rely on a villain to value bet for you.

Villain's flop flat is fine here because most players would barrel turn for value with their premium hands, and then shove river. There's also a lot of AK AQ,TT, that he doesn't want to scare off from barrelling.

Why didn't you shove on the river?

I thought this was straightforward, but I have a friend that disagreed with me, so I am posting here. $11R, right after we reached the final table, 9 left, 6 get paid. I was chip leader with 61k. V1 was right behind me at 60k, V2 had about 18k. 1st hand (no reads), with 400/800/100, I was dealt KsKd in MP. I opened to 1840, V2 called on the button, V1 called in the BB. Flop was Ts9s3d. V1 checked, I bet 3200, V2 folded, V1 x/r'ed to 12k. What is your plan? Flat, 4b, or fold? Sorry, this was on Global and I couldn't find any way to see hand records.

4b to 30 or just put it all in. Then, cause it's Global, ATo calls and catches another the ace on the river. I kid, but I'm getting it in here. It's ugly but at least you have the spade blocker.

i'm 95bb under ev the last hour playing 10-28bb poker. 300 hands.
+ bullshit like this happening at the same time:

Yatahay Network - 125/250 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 43.66 BB
MP: 22 BB
MP+1: 32.94 BB
CO: 145.48 BB
Hero (BTN): 58.78 BB
SB: 15.91 BB
BB: 83.2 BB
UTG: 29.4 BB

8 players post ante of 0.12 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.46 BB) Hero has 8 A

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 2 BB, fold, Hero calls 2 BB, fold, BB calls 1 BB

Flop: (7.46 BB, 3 players) 3 4 6
BB checks, MP+1 bets 3.73 BB, Hero calls 3.73 BB, fold

Turn: (14.92 BB, 2 players) Q
MP+1 bets 11.19 BB, Hero calls 11.19 BB

River: (37.31 BB, 2 players) 3
MP+1 bets 15.89 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 15.89 BB

MP+1 shows 6 6 (Full House, Sixes full of Threes)
(Pre 53%, Flop 34%, Turn 23%)
Hero shows 8 A (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 47%, Flop 66%, Turn 77%)
MP+1 wins 69.09 BB

Villain is spewtard who would take same line with 4/5 ace highs in his range and all over pairs with or without a spade. mtts are the trashest format

To finish of my whining and post another spot i ended session running 150bb under ev playing latereg poker and running at most even in coolers. 0% itm session lmao.

Yatahay Network - 7000/14000 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 34.72 BB
BTN: 23.74 BB
SB: 27.72 BB
BB: 57.29 BB
UTG: 37.81 BB
Hero (UTG+1): 28.16 BB
MP: 10.33 BB

7 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.37 BB) Hero has A A

fold, Hero raises to 2.1 BB, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 1.6 BB, BB calls 1.1 BB

Flop: (7.17 BB, 3 players) 5 9 6
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 4.74 BB, SB calls 4.74 BB, BB calls 4.74 BB

Turn: (21.38 BB, 3 players) 7
SB bets 3 BB, BB calls 3 BB, fold

River: (27.38 BB, 2 players) A
SB checks, BB bets 18 BB, SB calls 17.76 BB and is all-in



Not often you lay down aces getting 9:1 ip on turn.

I did 3b to 30 and he folded, but my friend actually said I should have folded, which I found stupid, lol.

Villain is running 38/6 over 71 hands... Is there any merit here in checking flop and turn and trying to get a river bet in? I have been playing very aggro and cbetting a lot, especially on dry flops but he is relatively new to the table and probably not very good or paying attention to stuff like board texture and ranges. Like, I wouldn't want to ever check this against a reg because I believe it doesn't make sense with my range and the board textures I cbet on etc, but I guess I could probably do some checking here maybe?

This is the Chico Main event 200k GTD with like ~5 tables left

You can definitely check behind on that flop against that kind of opponent. I think I’d prob start betting most turns since it would be difficult to get it all in on just one street unless he bets.

His range has a lot of queens in it imo, so I don’t dislike the flop bet by any means. I just think checking has a lot of merit to it since it gives him a chance to either bluff or catch up.

Is it wrong to stack off like this semi close to bubble in tourny like this below:

Ok we are day 2 of a Vegas tourny months back. I don’t really know specifics but aggro old guy opens (blaster) cutoff to 3x and we have 50bb probably and 3bet AJdd to 10.5x. He flats and flop is 259 with 2 diamonds. I check, he leads 80-100% pot and I jam after some thought and he snaps 10-10 and we lose. Wanna say average at time was 40bb, 80’left and 50 min cash. Villian had 60-70bb

Sorry if I don’t have specifics about hands but this happened months ago and just wonder about flop. Some reg at my table said you should just call and fold turn due to icm but i think that’s kinda goofy. Call and folding bad turns seems very bad to me. The comment irritated me.

Just wondering- I look at it like this. We have 100bbs when avg is 40bb in a weak soft field $400 with heaps up top so we can exploit the bubble if we win this hand and most likely make a really nice run if we run ok. Just wondering about the cbet by villian. Based on his sizing, I think he’s never folding to a jam when you look back at the hand. I wanna say he started hand with 60-70 bbs but not sure.

Some of the hand specifics may be wrong but I know I 3bet from sb and he called and then bet very big on flop. And onto the flop, maybe 50 paid and 80 left or something like that? So not huge bubble implications but I’m not playing to mincash like I always say here. Think there is more value with 100bb closing in on bubble vs grinding out a 20-30 bb stack

50 paid and 80 left? That's not really close enough to the bubble IMO. I'd start thinking about ICM and the bubble when you're down to 60. I think your play is fine, although I'm also wondering if lead flop / jam turn folds out a hand like TT.

I had a weird ICM spot last night. ACR $55 mega stack $25k guaranteed. First hand of the final table, so 8 left. I'm 6th in chips with 15-16BB or so. 7th is two or three to my right and around 10-11BB. But two to my left is a player who's been sitting out for a long time and now has 0.3BB. They'll inevitably bust when the blinds come around, if not before.

But at the first hand of the final table, I'm UTG with KK.

Given my own stack and the fact that it's KK-- and the next jump is only 8th to 7th, and not, say, 4th to 3rd-- I don't see ever folding, but considering the baby stack sitting out, and that kings are still not aces, is open-jamming 16BB a better ICM play than making a standard raise?

Kk hand, I think you are losing out on chips if you open rip 16bb with kk. I would much rather min open and play streets as long term- you will make more chips. Ripping is lower variance but I’m not really looking to move up necessarily if the prize is not some insane amount (think moving up from 8 to 9 in the WSOP main event). Even with icm, I think qq/kk/aa are too good to be losing value by open ripping.

Thanks.

I did make the standard min-open but it was afterward I was like "Wait, with the tiny stack that's sitting out is it better to totally minimize variance for the next 2-3 hands until he's gone?" Still getting the hang of adjusting to ICM with modern pay structures and avoiding disaster without over-adjusting and nitting it up too much.

Results:

Nath, definitely start with a standard open, not an open shove. You want someone behind you jamming a lower pocket pair (55-88) or KQ/A10/etc. that they’ll probably be able to get away from if you open jam. Of course 99-QQ/AK/etc would call your jam, but the others probably fold.

Jk, I don’t think you blundered or anything, but if I were playing the hand I’d consider just calling the open against this specific type of player (super aggro). By calling we can win a huge pot if he has an inferior ace or jack (or hit a flush/straight), and we can control the size of the pot since there’s a real good chance he’s calling our 3 bet with a big chunk of his range (I assume he’s calling all pocket pairs and suited connectors). Again, I don’t mind the 3! but just something to think about.

Once we 3! and hit this flop I’m probably just betting and if he raises I’m gonna shove. I disagree with the other players that suggest check/calling then check/folding. CRAI is better than that.

Is this icm suicide? Ok som$350 tournament- this hand has nothing my to do with me but wonder about the spot. Ok button or cutoff on big stack opens to 16k at 4/8k and might have 400k stack. Small blind has 40k and elects to jam AKo. We are at 65 left and 63 min cash. Is this a spot small blind should just sigh pass on? He has no fold equity. He can fold till the bubble bursts and atleast get a min cash.

Just wondering if this is a bad spot to fold so close to the bubble. Normally I say yolo and go for the glory and better your chance to win. In this spot though, I think I just sigh fold and tell nobody of my hand. I wait till the bubble is over and then go back to a normal shove type mode. I mean I would be fine ripping say 5-6bbs in an unopened pot but in a spot where we have no FE against someone with a big stack that can call and not be hurt, think he’s gotta just sigh fold ak in this spot at the bubble. Please tell me if I’m wrong here?

Villian got called and lost to some random 2 card hand that wasn’t a pair and finished 64 missing out on a $540 min cash (not big money but $540>0 when you just need to maybe find 4-5 folds in next couple of hands).

With no fold equity it seems like a straight ICM situation. AKo is a little over 65% vs. a random hand.

I don't have as good a grasp on the ICM details at the money bubble as I do at the final table (and I really still need work on both), so I'm not sure. 65% is still enough for most FT situations, but 35% might be too much to risk for the jump from zero money to some money. I'm not sure.

I guess I’m just asking if it’s a massive mistake to fold AKo there? I say no bc you guarantee a min cash in a spot where villian should not fold any two cads really bc our stack is under 10bb. Like i think it sucks to fold AKo in this spot but getting the min cash seems more valuable than a flip right on the bubble where we get knocked out if we run into big hand or get unlucky and lose a flip or against 2 random cards.

I'm saying that you can use ICM solvers and such to get the actual answer on that.

Why are people posting hands here? Can we stop new comments here, so posters start new threads for their hands? Moderator?

Hmmm

dereds set this up for quick checkup threads many years ago before solvers

I think I agree. Given how we solve hands now, there may be an argument to close this thread.

I’ll leave it open for now, but if you have a multi-way preflop question or any postflop question - please create a thread in the main MSMTT-HSMTT forum. Chances are it deserves a solve and discussion.

Cheers - OS

I much prefer separate threads for each hand. Thanks.

Hey all really quirky spot where I made a mistake I need thoughts on.

Is this a fold? Ok 100-100 with bb ante. 3rd hand of day so everyone has 15k starting stack and mtt is a turbo. I make it 400 with AQss over an ep limper and 2 calls from blinds and original limper. Flop is AKJ with 2 hearts and no spade. Checks to me, I accidentally cbet 5100 instead of 600 and small blind rips. Do you ever call here after my massive mistake? I called and lost to K6hh lmao. Idk jam is going to be 2 pair and Q-10 a lot but I feel jam is most likely 2 hearts so heavy so I call and turn is 4h for a sigh 3rd hand bust out. Do you ever just sigh muck this hand here? Also is cbet bad here? Board is very wet. Maybe I’m supposed to check back here and pot control but idk.

I meant to cbet 600 but there in a 5k chip
Instead of a 500 for a massive mistake on my end. Felt so foolish after noticing my mistake.

Math wise I need to call 9200 to win a pot of 30,300 so roughly need 30.36% to make it a ev 0 call.

Are you sure this is a legitimate question and not just a disguised complaint?

I'll assume it's a real question. You misclicked obv but betting 600 on flop would have been fine. As played, easy call after the SB shove.

MD Live $100 10k GTD:

Big stack, fairly aggro villain looks at the payout screen then opens 3.2x UTG.

I’m in SB with 20bbs and 99. It folds to me.

Villain previously minraised KK pre two hands ago.

What’s your play?

Shove, 3b, or take a tighter approach and either call or fold?

80 left out of ~200.

Thanks!

Given the 2x previous open, I'm usually jamming here. He rarely has QQ+. He sometimes has 99-JJ and that sucks, but more often he has AQs+, AKo, and 66-88.

Great, thanks for your reply.

I think you were spot on.

I jammed, BB reshoved with AK, UTG raiser thanked the BB for making his decision easy and folded. A on flop.