We have 49 player's remaining, 10 away from money.

Blind's 2/4k with 4k BB ante. We play 7 handed and I have 84k/21BB sitting on button position.

Player from cutoff new to our table(200k/50bb)raises to 10k and I call with 88 and BB calls as well.

Flop 445 rainbow. BB and cutoff raiser check. I bet 17,5k in to 36k pot, BB folds and cutoff puts me all in 14bb more.

1. Can we fold this on flop after my bet?
2. Should we fold this pre-flop?
3. Maybe shove pre-flop?
Thanks

I don't like a half pot bet on this flop. We want thin value out of A high's that checked flop and 8-12k accomplishes that much better imo. That also might not induce a jam raise, but like a 30k raise (hard to say). As played, man...Idk what you're beating. I'd think most Ax hands cbet small, so what hands here are check raising? I can't think of many bluffs tbh, esp on rainbow boards.

20bb vs 2.5x CO open just ship it pre.

1 no
2 no
3 definitely

I am assuming you have about 1/2 average stack at this point? What was the bb stack?

As played, I would try to find a fold because I doubt you are beating anything but irl, with no reads, I call here. If you were a short stack as I assume, I would rather jam pre or even jam flop but I think you fell into the trap of a bigger pp by cutoff (and you would have been behind the whole time anyways, so my plays still get you bounced to the rail). I think it's possible the cutoff has ak or aq and is gambling only if the bb had a covering stack and most likely hand to have a 4/5.

If you weren't planning to put in your stack on this flop, why bet flop? Why even call preflop if you are folding to the c/r?

easy shove pre gg

end thread. terrible flat

Flatting anything’s on 21bb pre from a lp open is really bad. Just shove pre or fold. Shove is fine and when you lose a flip or lose to better hand, bad luck.

You can try to induce with a big pair if players behind are squeeze happy. Indeed any time I see a competent player flat a stack this size, alarm bells go off in my head...

True but remaining players better be pretty lag I feel. I think 3bet small/or standard sizing with big pairs would be better (face up but what else can you do).

Also hero has 88. Are we going to check fold or continue to guess if we call 1 on an unfavorable flop.

I'm probably jamming too, here, unless Villain seems excessively tight, this will be profitable.

Yes, 1/2 average stack, bb had 90bb.
Only option's I was considering is call or shove pre.
Unfortunately on this particular flop and check from cutoff we have the same results for call/shove pre. CO had JJ and I hit the rail.

Thank you everyone for your input.

So you could never win no matter how you played it. Unlucky spot close to the bubble with a stack and position that dictate you play the hand.