Just trying to start a discussion

Im trying to add more BET-FOLD lines to my game OTR as I feel I lose a lot of value on the river.

Id love to see some REAL - BET FOLD RIVER LINES. Pref ones that have been discussed and determined that its the better line to go with and why.

Im often convincing myself there is no reason to bet river many times and then they check the river back and have a hand I could of got value from

Ill post some hands i find from my database in a bit and see if they compare to any of the examples

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/87...anges-1619983/

I just watched that hand on the you tube version WHAT A LAYDOWN,

esp when obst goes, it seems you have a straight flush and folds (honestly you folding there)

Been going thru the hands ive Bet-Fold on river and not many of them and all seem like false hope to say the least.

if youre not bet/folding river your prob not value betting thin enough.

Post your hands, see what people think.

iPoker - $15+$1.50|<> NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 51 BB (VPIP: 12.82, PFR: 10.26, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 39)
SB: 21.5 BB (VPIP: 5.13, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
Hero (BB): 57.96 BB
UTG: 122.66 BB (VPIP: 28.00, PFR: 24.00, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 25)
UTG+1: 66.83 BB (VPIP: 20.83, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
MP: 24.8 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
MP+1: 68.53 BB (VPIP: 25.64, PFR: 17.95, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
MP+2: 30.31 BB (VPIP: 30.77, PFR: 17.95, 3Bet Preflop: 13.64, Hands: 39)
CO: 13.93 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

9 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has Jd 8d
fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero checks

Flop : (3.9 BB, 3 players) Kd Qd 2c
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 2 BB, fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, UTG+1 calls 3 BB

Turn : (13.9 BB, 2 players) 4d
Hero bets 6.95 BB, UTG+1 calls 6.95 BB

River : (27.8 BB, 2 players) 3d
Hero bets 8.86 BB, UTG+1 raises to 53.78 BB, fold

UTG+1 wins 90.44 BB
-------------------------------------------------------------------
MY thoughts

CALL PF
X/R FLOP (leading OTT regardless if villan bets or not)
1/2 pot OTT lead
REally small 1/4th type river lead (which now im thinking this might be the error as but Im only losing to AXsd hand, Ill have to reanaylze this one to see if someone limping pf,

hmm dunno think this was a bad fold but then again he is betting the flop and calling turn and RR river.

but the plan IN GAME was bet fold for me here.

THE WORST ACE he is doing this with pf ATsd which, i dunno the limping thing pf ****s with me, so Im sure could be limping UTG+1 with ATsd A9sd

EDIT I meant to say only AdX is beating me so ATo and A9o are limpable

Wonder if raised from BB pf if this dude is calling with those holdings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afLNCli6o4Q

OP that specific hand is more interesting than a general thread about b/f

above comments about b/f are correct - people don't value bet marginal spots often enough on the river because they fear to make ugly decisions about bet/fold. as a result, they lose significant value when opponents check back marginal hands that would have given value.

when raised otr, my advice is to put yourself in your opponents shoes and ask if they can possibly have a bluffing or overvaluing range in this spot. if they can then it's more likely a b/c. if they only have Ad in your hand above, then it's a fold.

however, I do have a question over your sizing otr. then sizing you chose appears to be a block bet that's scared of the board and doesn't want to c/c something large. there's an argument to bet larger on the river for value against worse flushes and stubborn 2pr+ hands, but also to ensure that your opponent sees strength and doesn't raise over a scared/block bet.

yea thats what i thought too when i relooked over the hand, river bet was way too small, guess i was thinking i could get out cheap here, but id of rather bet larger and just got called, CAUSE DAMNIT I FOLDED THE BEST HAND

if you can't fold the best hand occasionally you can't play poker