Hello. I've been lurking for a while, but it's time to get active and this hand from a MTT I played yesterday seems like a good way to start. I took a few notes after this played out to try remembering the most important details, but it isn't perfect.

Buy-in is $300, 30,000 starting stacks and 20 min. blinds with re-buys allowed. About 172 entries.

Blinds are at 200/400 with 50 ante for this hand.

Hero is in the CO seat. Two players limp in and hero, holding AA raises to 2500 with about 32,500 remaining.

Action folds around to the SB who calls, and then folds around to the limpers who both call. No short stacks involved. 4 players see the flop with a pot of about 10,900.

Flop: 672

SB donks 3k, and is immediately raised by the first limper who shoves all-in for 20,125. Second limper folds to me. My only history with these players is in this tournament, and we'd been playing for maybe 2 hours so far. I have limited reads on both players, but I know the player who shoved has been tight so far, playing few hands. It's also obvious to me that everyone going to the flop was aware that I had a big pocket pair, if not AA exactly, so I figure they're all either set-mining or playing some kind of suited or connected cards hoping to out-flop me.

I figure, between the SB and the shove, someone very likely has made a set, or possibly 2 pair, and I'm already drawing to very few outs. I fold my aces.

I have the details from the rest of that hand, but I'm not sure that I'm supposed to include that information.

Would you have played this hand differently?

in a vacuum, i can't see myself folding this in a liveament with 20 minute levels (so i would reshove all-in) despite us having the A in our hand

reads are important in this spot. can you elaborate on our opponents' tendencies (e.g., tight/loose, passive/aggressive, limp-calling ranges, etc.)?

also, i would have raised smaller preflop (~1600-1800)

more thoughts below

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pre-flop:

if you don't already do it, i would use a raising strategy which doesn't broadcast the strength of your hand (e.g., raise the same amount with all hands) since it lets our opponents make more mistakes (both preflop and postflop)

also, how much would you have raised preflop if there were no limpers? (your larger raise sizing suggests that you might have opened to 3x or more which is way too big.) it's unusual, to say the least, to have an SPR of 3 in a single-raised pot when we started the hand with 80bb+.

flop:

rationale for not folding: generally speaking, ppl play more aggressively in these live turbos. also, the first limper had an SPR of only ~1.4 prior to shoving which weakens his range considerably. i doubt the SB is that strong given that he donk bet and that you're large preflop sizing indicates strength (more on preflop below) - i.e., if he had a set, he would have checked knowing that you have a hand that you're likely to be c-betting

Looks std, sir, not sure if you could have done anything differently. I like the sizing pre as limpers have hard time folding no matter how much you raise. After the flop, well, you block the nut-fd which is yet another argument for fold.

and welcome to the forums!

Obviously call.

As far as preflop sizing, both limpers called the 6.2x plus a cold caller, so not sure it should be smaller. However, I can see an argument that it could be a sizing tell if you would not raise as much with weaker hands.

In the live games I play in, a normal online sizing has almost no fold equity, so especially over two limpers, this seems like perfectly normal sizing preflop IMO.

I don't hate a fold here particularly as you're still deep and early on in the tournament.

However I think a call should normally be the best play here, I can definitely see people overplaying small overpairs like this for protection and then they can whinge about being coolered when you show up cold-calling with AA.

Third or fourth level of this tournament(?) so no really big stacks involved and lots of risk of early bust out. But, often in such events with big payouts at the end on a $300 buy-in, some players will be excessively aggressive early and just fire another bullet if they bust, so some types of players may be wider in their ranges.

I agree with the read that somebody might have a set. Can't put anybody on 2 pair here given pre-flop action, and with the ace of clubs out of play it's hard to see anyone shoving with a king-high club flush draw (although not out of the question for some folks with broadway cards).

The opening bet and the over-shove could both be JJ, TT, QQ, KK or even 99-88 given how aggressive some folks are in these events, but it is certainly likely that you are up against a set.

But, one additional factor here is that the SB is still in the hand and if he has more chips than the shover, you could get a side pot that you might win, since the chances of two other players both flopping sets is pretty low.

On balance, I would find it hard to fold, but I commend you on having the discipline to lay them down in this spot and fight another battle. Well done.

First, thanks to you guys for responding and offering some of your thoughts. I'm glad to see that even here, not everyone is clearly set on the same course of action.

Next, I'd like to make sure that I understand here why it is that having the A blocker to the nut fd is a reason to fold. Is that because it makes it significantly less likely that one of the villains is holding a hand drawing to the flush, and thus makes it more likely that I'm up against other, possibly already-made hands?

I wouldn't consider this raise to be a tell exactly, because I would use a larger raise with other holdings (lower pocket pairs, AK, or a pure bluff). My thought process was mostly to narrow down the field. Unfortunately, as the second limper said when calling "well, implied odds are worth a call."

Unfortunately, I can elaborate very little beyond what I already mentioned. The first limper had been playing fairly tight, entering few hands, and I don't think he had shown down anything up to that point. The second limper seemed like a fairly smart LAG. I had no real read on the SB. I've been working on getting better at reading and ranges, but I still have a long way to go in that department.

This makes sense, so I can see that perhaps I was giving these villains too much credit in terms of their hand strength as I made my decision.

This was largely my rationale for the fold. I could get away having invested only the 2,500 preflop. I had convinced myself that they had stronger hands, and I was already behind, but I need to learn to stop letting my inner nit take control and make sure I analyze correctly. A call and win here would have made me chip leader at the table and set me up for a much better position mid-tourney.

By the way, did I understand correctly in the rules section that it's not allowed to post the actual results of the hand? Is that to avoid muddying the water as other posters consider what they would have done in the same situation?

don't mind a fold with 80bbs behind. Soulread now

Yes.

Yes, but if you post results be sure to do this:

still in RB period? can make a case for jamming if everyone's loose in RB

but if folks are playing normal live tight poker then SB looks like a club draw with overs or multi draws and jammer looks like a set, given that there's 3 sets in his l/c range.

can fold a little easier holding Ac too.

But, one additional factor here is that the SB is still in the hand and if he has more chips than the shover, you could get a side pot that you might win, since the chances of two other players both flopping sets is pretty low.

+1 on KGC's thought here...their stack sizes weren't included and I think aside from the myriad of other factors to wade through, this one should not be under-valued, though a losing call isn't likely to make this Neutral EV (if there is such a term).

I don't love calling and I don't hate folding but it's hard to get in the mind of what first limper that reshoved was thinking?? Can his action ever be 99 or something? I think you need to call if he looks like a mutt.

Are you sure it was obvious to him/table that you have a "big pair"?? Why do you think this?

I really would like to know results.. please post when you're ready.

Obviously shove. The guy who limps and then 2bet shoves the flop has two broadway cards and a flush draw like 80% of the time here IMO and the other 20% of the time he has 88+. I dont think anyone plays a hand that beats AA this way unless its maybe a super old nitty person...

Pretty sure he folded and the results are "good fold kid"

Think he called and missed his redraws versus a set.

I think you messed up your calculations, it's closer to 89.473%. Are you serious?

Think you have to call, but some live donks will shove a made hand more than a draw, so you could be running into a set fairly often.

this is a pretty trivial call