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Live 250 mtt line checks Live 250 mtt line checks

05-19-2018 , 10:45 AM
Hey all, played a live 250 yesterday and think I made 2 pretty big mistakes and just want to confirm they were mistakes and not just unlucky spots I guess where i'm being results-oriented.

Hand #1- I have in the range of 25-30k (not sure of specifics). Its 75/150 and I have an aggro image as I've been opening many pots and c-betting roughly 80-90% of flops. I open to 450 from mid position with KsQs. Get two calls... wanna say one from big blind and one from button. Flop is KQA rainbow. BB checks, I bet 700 and get two calls. Turn is a 9 and I bet 2k, button folds and bb calls. River is a 10 (might be a J, I dont remember exact bet sizes) On the river the BB checks once again, and I bet 7k..... not sure why. BB is an older gentlemen who has played very tight and seems like a solid player. Hasn't gotten out of line at all and has played solid... not open limping and his bet sizes are solid compared to standard poor players so I say this guy is a good player that isnt a random rec player. He Jams on my 7k bet which i wanna say is 18-20k? I didn't even ask the sizing and muck. Do I just check this river. I feel betting is terrible here and didn't think of this during play. I'm never getting called by worse really and open a jam for hands like J-10 etc. Guy didn't show but I assume he had J-10 or A-10. He didn't seem like the type of player to get out of line here.

Hand #2- I probably have 22k at 75/150. again I don't know exact stack sizes but I open JJ to 450 from mp. I get 3-bet by a young player that just sat at the table. Looks like an aggro online player, have no history on past hands bc he just sat. My image is aggro but not sure he knows this as he has been at table for 3 hands. He 3 bets to 1800 (near button), and i mull over if I can set mine here so take 20 seconds and make the call. (idk if this is a set mine per se but if he has big pair we can stack him if we hit a 10 i guess- this line of thought is bad i know... i might be up against ak aq etc). Flop is A-5-7 rainbow and I check. He c-bets 2k which i feel is weak and kinda small compared to pot size. I raise to 5k and he jams a starting stack of 20k and i fold. Do I just flat cbet or fold here? I felt his bet sizing was kinda small and cbet seemed weak so I feel check raise here is good when it works. I feel he should be cbetting his whole range here so i feel we get folds whenever he doesn't have an A in his hand here even if he has say QQ or KK. Do we just muck to his cbet or flat and evaluate? I just felt we get some folds here so raising does a good job establishing where we are in the hand. I never think hes jamming worse here. I feel the way i thought about my hand pre might have hurt my line also.

final hand- Against same player as #2 (i'm sitting on 12k), at 100-200 I open to 600 with 10-10. Player 3bets to 1800. ugh this is the type of spot i hate. I thought about ripping my stack but decided to fold. I felt flatting is terrible bc hes going to cbet all flops i can't continue on. Also I feel ripping 40-50bbs with 10-10 is something I tend to do in the past and always end up in bad spots. I feel his calling range is probably crushing me and I'm only lucky to be against AQ or AK. I fold pre, is this an ok spot to just muck? I think he runs me over in position if we play post flop on my small stack and if i jam pre, I only get called with JJ+ and AQ+ so ripping so much seems like a bad play. Thanks for any thoughts on these hands. Sorry for the length of posts.
Live 250 mtt line checks Quote
05-19-2018 , 12:34 PM
Hand 1: Hard to imagine getting 3 streets of value out of a sticky one-pair Ax even with your image. I think a check-back on the river makes sense, yes.

Hand 2: I can't really get behind the check-raise here. You have a medium strength hand, and if you think you're ahead, just flat and re-evaluate the turn. By check-raising you might get the occasional KK/QQ to fold but otherwise you're folding out hands that you're way ahead of and value-towning yourself on hands you're behind. I'm OK with just a straight fold here, too. You barely had 15x of the 3b to call to set mine (some people prefer 25x) and you got a pretty bad flop. It was a marginal call pre and it's a pretty marginal spot to float. I'm ok with folding pre or post. I would have probably just jammed pre but it's pretty close.

Hand 3: You didn't mention your positions and what his stack size was. That's very relevant here. Also, what have you gotten of his image up to this point now that you have more history than you did in hand 2? Without more info, a 4b is pretty nutty in a $250, and you don't even have to size it too large to give it a shot, particularly if you were something like the LJ and he was the BTN. You could give it a shot around 4400-4600 and still have about 40 bigs left if you have to fold to a 5b shove. There's enough dead money at that point that it's usually worthwhile, and he's probably only continuing at that point with QQ+ and AKs.

Last edited by HawkesDave; 05-19-2018 at 12:40 PM.
Live 250 mtt line checks Quote
05-19-2018 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkesDave
Hand 1: Hard to imagine getting 3 streets of value out of a sticky one-pair Ax even with your image. I think a check-back on the river makes sense, yes.

Hand 2: I can't really get behind the check-raise here. You have a medium strength hand, and if you think you're ahead, just flat and re-evaluate the turn. By check-raising you might get the occasional KK/QQ to fold but otherwise you're folding out hands that you're way ahead of and value-towning yourself on hands you're behind. I'm OK with just a straight fold here, too. You barely had 15x of the 3b to call to set mine (some people prefer 25x) and you got a pretty bad flop. It was a marginal call pre and it's a pretty marginal spot to float. I'm ok with folding pre or post. I would have probably just jammed pre but it's pretty close.

Hand 3: You didn't mention your positions and what his stack size was. That's very relevant here. Also, what have you gotten of his image up to this point now that you have more history than you did in hand 2? Without more info, a 4b is pretty nutty in a $250, and you don't even have to size it too large to give it a shot, particularly if you were something like the LJ and he was the BTN. You could give it a shot around 4400-4600 and still have about 40 bigs left if you have to fold to a 5b shove. There's enough dead money at that point that it's usually worthwhile, and he's probably only continuing at that point with QQ+ and AKs.
Thanks for the feedback. Hand 3- I wanna say i was mid to early position and he was probably in the hi-jack position. He was playing solid poker, pretty TAG but def felt he has probably 88+ AQ+ in this spot. If I was raising from say the hi jack or late position and he 3 bet from say button or small blind... i probably 4 bet but something told me he most likely had a big hand and if i flat he out plays me post flop. I should probably consider 4 betting there as i can stil fold pre.


One more thing I want to ask. Should I feel ****ty that i basically lost prolly 12k in chips on 2 big mistakes in this tourny? I ended up busting with a 4k stack with a standard late position shove at 200/400 50. I just look back like if i had 15-16k there I give myself a shot atleast to do better during ante stages. I felt 2 out of those 3 hands I made huge mistakes that really killed my chances in tourny.
Live 250 mtt line checks Quote
05-20-2018 , 02:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkpoker10
Hey all, played a live 250 yesterday and think I made 2 pretty big mistakes and just want to confirm they were mistakes and not just unlucky spots I guess where i'm being results-oriented.

Hand #1- I have in the range of 25-30k (not sure of specifics). Its 75/150 and I have an aggro image as I've been opening many pots and c-betting roughly 80-90% of flops. I open to 450 from mid position with KsQs. Get two calls... wanna say one from big blind and one from button. Flop is KQA rainbow. BB checks, I bet 700 and get two calls. Turn is a 9 and I bet 2k, button folds and bb calls. River is a 10 (might be a J, I dont remember exact bet sizes) On the river the BB checks once again, and I bet 7k..... not sure why. BB is an older gentlemen who has played very tight and seems like a solid player. Hasn't gotten out of line at all and has played solid... not open limping and his bet sizes are solid compared to standard poor players so I say this guy is a good player that isnt a random rec player. He Jams on my 7k bet which i wanna say is 18-20k? I didn't even ask the sizing and muck. Do I just check this river. I feel betting is terrible here and didn't think of this during play. I'm never getting called by worse really and open a jam for hands like J-10 etc. Guy didn't show but I assume he had J-10 or A-10. He didn't seem like the type of player to get out of line here.

Hand #2- I probably have 22k at 75/150. again I don't know exact stack sizes but I open JJ to 450 from mp. I get 3-bet by a young player that just sat at the table. Looks like an aggro online player, have no history on past hands bc he just sat. My image is aggro but not sure he knows this as he has been at table for 3 hands. He 3 bets to 1800 (near button), and i mull over if I can set mine here so take 20 seconds and make the call. (idk if this is a set mine per se but if he has big pair we can stack him if we hit a 10 i guess- this line of thought is bad i know... i might be up against ak aq etc). Flop is A-5-7 rainbow and I check. He c-bets 2k which i feel is weak and kinda small compared to pot size. I raise to 5k and he jams a starting stack of 20k and i fold. Do I just flat cbet or fold here? I felt his bet sizing was kinda small and cbet seemed weak so I feel check raise here is good when it works. I feel he should be cbetting his whole range here so i feel we get folds whenever he doesn't have an A in his hand here even if he has say QQ or KK. Do we just muck to his cbet or flat and evaluate? I just felt we get some folds here so raising does a good job establishing where we are in the hand. I never think hes jamming worse here. I feel the way i thought about my hand pre might have hurt my line also.

final hand- Against same player as #2 (i'm sitting on 12k), at 100-200 I open to 600 with 10-10. Player 3bets to 1800. ugh this is the type of spot i hate. I thought about ripping my stack but decided to fold. I felt flatting is terrible bc hes going to cbet all flops i can't continue on. Also I feel ripping 40-50bbs with 10-10 is something I tend to do in the past and always end up in bad spots. I feel his calling range is probably crushing me and I'm only lucky to be against AQ or AK. I fold pre, is this an ok spot to just muck? I think he runs me over in position if we play post flop on my small stack and if i jam pre, I only get called with JJ+ and AQ+ so ripping so much seems like a bad play. Thanks for any thoughts on these hands. Sorry for the length of posts.
Hand 1: You have a decent amount of showdown value here on the river. I’m not sure what a bet accomplishes. You’ll get called by better and worse hands will fold, most likely. I mean I guess you’d get A9 exactly to fold here.

Hand 2: Don’t like the “see where we’re at” raise....I think you can do that with a call on the flop. If you fold to Axx on flop every time with JJ after calling a three-bet, you have to figure it is a losing play in the long run. I like a call here.

Hand 3: Think 10-10 is too strong of a hand to fold pre to a 3bet. You’re 60 BBs deep and his range seems really, really wide here. You’re right on jamming pre, that would certainly not make sense.

Don’t let one tourney get you down though, best of luck in the next one!
Live 250 mtt line checks Quote
05-21-2018 , 04:09 PM
Hand 1: you have some showdown value no need to turn KQ into a bluff. You could conceivably get some better 2 pairs to lay down but its just not worth it IMO.

Hand 2: I'm just folding here. If I felt that villain's bet is weak and is likely a pair I might call. But more often it is strong and just trying to get a call. The c/r works against PP's but fails vs a big Ax and 2 pairs+. Just calling works sometimes if villain doesn't bet the turn and you bluff the river. But sometimes KK/QQ calls anyway.

Hand 3 I'm calling and lets see what happens. I would recommend opening to 500 (with 6o blinds) not 600 as the 3-bet will likely be smaller.
Live 250 mtt line checks Quote
05-21-2018 , 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkpoker10
Thanks for the feedback. Hand 3- I wanna say i was mid to early position and he was probably in the hi-jack position. He was playing solid poker, pretty TAG but def felt he has probably 88+ AQ+ in this spot. If I was raising from say the hi jack or late position and he 3 bet from say button or small blind... i probably 4 bet but something told me he most likely had a big hand and if i flat he out plays me post flop. I should probably consider 4 betting there as i can stil fold pre.
TT is about even money vs 88+, AQo. Being oop sucks but folding is just too nitty. Plenty deep enough to take a flop and usually calling one bet.
Live 250 mtt line checks Quote

      
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