$550+$200 addon main event satellite
120 entries, 5 seats
Hero has just entered late, 10k starting stack
Still in reentry period

Blinds 100/200/25

V1 30ish white guy has clearly been on early heater 100k, raises 700 utg1
V2 SB 40s lady 25k no reads flats
Hero completes BB KJhh

Flop KdTc3d
Checked through

Turn 5s
SB checks
Hero checks (inducing)
V1 bets 1200
SB calls 1200
Hero raises 4200

V1 jams
SB folds

Hero?

Wow, that's pretty gross. Gets uglier every time I look at it. Pre is whatever. With the extra money from V2 I don't think you can find a fold here, but I'm looking for a pretty strong board to continue vs. an UTG+1 open range. At 50BBs we're still in RIO territory.

I don't like the turn check-raise. You're in a WA/WB situation and I think it's much better to just call-down two streets once you decided to check the turn. There's always the chance the river could check-back but it's unlikely V1 would be calling with worse at that point anyway.

As played, at first I felt like this is a must-call, but the more I think about it, I think it's a slight fold. You're getting a great price to call but it's hard to see what V is doing this with that isn't for value. It's just a really awkward spot to 3b bluff shove with a complete brick (it's not like he picked up more equity unless he had 55). I also see too many V's playing KK/TT this way even on a pretty wet flop. He still has a strangely played AK/KQ in his range as well as a loose-opened 55.

If we are inducing then we have to c/r jam. We are putting in over 40% of our stack with the 4,200 raise.

Looks like V1 has a monster. But because the 8,000 means nothing to him he could have diamonds. I have no idea what to tell you. I would probably call and be shown 55. But on those rare occasions when my fold button is still working I would fold and be shown AJ...

I don't think I'd feel bad if I folded and V showed AJ because for him to check back the flop with it IP would just be terrible. I'd be excited that I still have chips and I'm still at the same table with him.

pretty gross spot, but I don't think you can put in that size of a raise and fold.

You stack is a bit awkward to check raise.

I think its probably a call down spot even thought SB is still in the hand.

X:r is silly here it’s a pretty easy bet like half/70% for value as played it’s a fold u have much better hands in ur x/r value range

I dont understand what a x/r accomplishes, I think I'd just lead here. If they have something like AT I think theyd much more likely call two streets of us leading into them than a x/r.

I'm really unsure what worse hand takes this line from villain, but IDK how we can fold with so much in the middle and top pair. Probably have to go with it and hope hes spazzing out with QQ/JJ/AT.

Leading turn is standard
By checking twice then raising in a spot I should have literally no value hands, I’m hoping either player will hero the cr and the river for a very large pot
Leading turn and river nets a nice pot, but cr turn and jam river might net a double even triple up
Perhaps V1 has decided to turn some equity into a rebluff now

I don't see why checking back {AdJd} OTF is "terrible", in fact I think it could go either way between x and cbet and in fact in this exact spot villain checking back with {AdJd} would have given him a free look to make broadway or his nut flush (or an ace!) while still giving him a chance to semibluff his way to a 45bb pot OTT (after all, hero is considering folding his TPGK right?). That's despite being outflopped by a dominated hand.

Can't fold as played. Dude has like 500bb he could be jamming to protect a naked T since hero's line looks FOS and almost never for value.

A large stack not cbetting AJ on that flop is indeed terrible when playing 3-way and KK is not in either V's range.

And Hero is considering folding his TPIrrelevantK because he check-raised and got shoved on. If V had cbet the flop he actually has 54.6% equity vs. KJ with AJ. He'd be cbetting to exercise his fold equity to deny equity to made pairs, building a pot to stack someone, and possibly inducing a shove by one of his opponents when he has an equity advantage. I can't see how anyone could ever not cbet that situation in his position with his stack. They fold? Win. They shove? Win. They call? Neutral at worst.

I don't get how anyone thinks we can be perceived as doing this light in this situation. We just x/r half of our stack multiway, its very clear we're never folding and its very clear no one has FE against us - how is this light?

Don’t understand c/r turn at all.

If you want to do it though u can’t fold now.

V prob has 55 but I’m never folding.

Very doubtful he has a flush draw since he would bet flop.

if you're playing it like that because of rebuy period then call what's the question? the 'standard' line is typically the 'best' line because it's the 'correct' line so ya what everyone else said you should lead turn and entirely avoid this cluster

whoa important info completely incorrect, I'm so sorry, watadik
starting bank is 20k not 10k
i still have a c/r/f option here to a V1 jam, SB call sequence or w/e
this would never be a post with a 10k starting bank and i'd lead turn, possibly flop every time
interested thread/strat ruined, dammit

any australian players will know this is the fourofafkind satellite which gives entry to the four major main events in melbourne (including 10k aussie millions) for the next 12 months. 20k starting bank, with 20k addon for $200 at first break.

#gettingold

I had a somewhat similar position playing (albeit a significantly smaller buy in and a different dynamic, so take my advice with a pinch of salt) an MTT yesterday on Stars.

This is the hand:

Poker Stars, $4.90 Buy-in (150/300 blinds, 40 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37934170

SB: 19,565 (65.2 bb)
Hero (BB): 13,143 (43.8 bb)
UTG+2: 4,170 (13.9 bb)
MP1: 4,230 (14.1 bb)
MP2: 17,546 (58.5 bb)
MP3: 12,392 (41.3 bb)
CO: 24,348 (81.2 bb)
BTN: 8,601 (28.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with KhQh
5 folds, BTN raises to 600, SB folds, Hero calls 300

Flop: (1,670) 3d 7s 6s (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (1,670) Qs (2 players)
Hero bets 675, BTN raises to 2,336, Hero folds

My thoughts generally when someone raises high on the turn after little to no action on the flop, is that they are going for value. That may seem like a really narrow thought process, but in general and in my experience, if you get raised on the turn in a position like this, alarm bells start going off. People just don't do it all that often on a whim.

Unless I've seen villain do something similar before, I begrudgingly fold (as above).

I guess that changes how we can be perceived, but I still don't see the point in x/r here, I just dont think our hand is good enough to raise for value multiway.

I'd much prefer to just lead on the turned 5 since it improves our range far more often than it improves UTG range, and we'd lead here with both value and bluffs. If the board had come T35, and the turn was Kx, I can dig a x/r way more since we'd be checking our entire range on this turn.

thnx for circling back ^

i totally understand that leading here is fine, but I just want to do more with a spot against a V1 who had a look and stack that strongly suggested he wouldn't be passive if checked to twice.

just how unpassive was a bit of a surprise, but I didn't c/r expecting to be jammed on after the brickest of bricks. i was trapping and hoping for a call down from one or more hands with SDV that considered my line FoS.

so how wide can V1 do this? that's the thread question in a nutshell.

Given that Sb is behind him and they already called, he has to have a strong hand. AJs/AQs/maybe A5s are really the bottom of their range. A naked Axs (That is really ambitious). I would expect to see 2 pair or better, maybe AK or AA. Do we with JTs and T9s are possibilities? This would more likely just be calls rather than shoving over your c/r

If the question is can he have worse, I mean what hands can you put in his range that you are beating?

Not having the correct starting stack is a pretty important point here. Now I am more likely to fold in this spot.

When the preflop raiser checks the flop and then wants to play for 100 BB stacks on the turn, one pair is basically never going to be good enough.

You checked to induce a bluff. It worked. Why raise?

Raising serves only to fold out worse or, as you found out, get reraised and put in a tough spot.

Call the turn for pot control and c/c brick rivers.

I dont think hes very wide here for the reasons above, if he had a bluff like QJ or AJ/AQ with a bdfd he'd probably cbet otf, and we even block some of these combos. The 5 never improves him here so when he 3b shoves into two players, one of which has taken an extremely strong line (your x/r) I think hes also strong here and x back the flop for balance/to trap (or he just turned a set and **** our lives). But its hard to see this being for value with a worse hand and it seems very unlikely to be a bluff.

At the end of the day I think this is villain dependent, do you think hes capable of spewing here? Do you think hes normally cbetting his AJ/AQ otf? That said its live poker so maybe hes just got A4o and is totally owning us when we fold.

Yeah also NoLimitLion makes a very good point, if you think hes going to bet into 2 people with low equity bluffs, why raise?

If you give either or both blinds the usual paint defending ranges this is a really bad flop for V1 to give free cards with his value range on the flop. It’s a mandatory value bet imho.

This was another key consideration with my chosen line. I couldn’t see what value hands would check back flop and the 5 shouldn’t change anything ott. So what value hands could V have? 55, K5? Does a 3.5x open make sense with either of those hands?

I’m raising not calling ott to induce stubborn calls from AT type hands that might check the flop. He might also choose to semi bluff a draw at this point, that will pay more to see river. I can see many reasons to raise rather than cc.

Then he raises...