Following hand happened in the 109$ mini Thursday Thrill on stars. I had no history with Villain because we just moved tables. The only information I had was that he just played two tournaments on stars previously.



If we purely look at Cev, this is a call if Villain’s jamming range includes at least TT+ & AKs,AKo. If he is tighter than this, it is a fold. Do you think we could assume that versus a random player, he would push TT in this situation?

The influence of TT being in his jamming range is this spot is huge. According to HRC, if TT is part of his jamming range, we have an easy and very profitable call for 4.35bb. However, if his jamming range is JJ+, AKs, AKo, it would be a terrible calling spot with -5.46bb.

For the sake of analysis, let’s assume TT is not part of his jamming range. In this situation, do we call in this spot for the bounty in play?

I look forward to your responses, first of all, if you believe TT would be a jam from an unknown Villain, and 2nd, would you call if we knew TT wasn’t part of his jamming range because of the bounty?

Very few villains 4b TT in this spot unless you’ve been 3bettinh super light, because you’re in the SB, your 3b excudes strength, and he’s claimed that he’s stonger. What would you do against you in his spot with TT?

Assigning our range to a 2 MTT noob for the purpose of this decision seems silly. I think we have to call. Shame he woke up with KK/is some multi accounting scumbag

Just looking at this on a really basic level, it's a fold. It's a fold. We're flipping at best for 46BB's!!! He's not shoving anything that we dominate here, that seems as plain as day.

Sorry for being a tad harsh, but what do you actually think he's shoving 46BB's for vs two limpers and a raise?

We work too hard in tournaments to build our stacks and already have to do battle with lady luck to progress without throwing our chips away in situations like this.

i think I would call JJ+,AK here and fold TT/AQ

Got to call here. If your not willing to call JJ to a jam, you shouldn't be 3 betting. Have to have a 3bet value range and a 3 bet bluff range. JJ is definitely in the value range isn't it!

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciatedd!

@ Bonza, should we always have a polarized 3bet range in which the 3bet value range is clearly ‘value’ to any action happening after our 3bet? In this particular spot, I thought of JJ as part of my value 3betting range. Nevertheless, I feel we still have a very difficult decision after villain cold 4bet jams, and I am leaning more towards a fold. Is it a mistake to add such a hand into my 3bet value range?

It's not a mistake value raising JJ and calling the jam. It is a mistake if you 3 bet then fold - if you were doing this you would be turning JJ into a 3bet bluff which it clearly is not. With this stack size we should be polarised in our 3 betting range yes.

In a vacuum, it is certainly a call but as it has been said before, are we really crushing his range?
Not at all, best case scenario, we are flipping. (ultimate best scenario we are up against 1010 but that seems very unlikely. He would more often than not flat your 3bet which shows already a lot of strenght.
As we have to adapt in complexe spot i think that letting it go would be the play in that precise spot.

If we're not prepared to call to a 4bet, then we should be calling the initial raise not 3betting (which is a reasonable strategy btw - not as good as 3bet/gii imo but MUCH better than 3bet/folding). You should be anticipating all the usual lines before making the 3bet and should not be put into a difficult decision.

VERY bad reasoning. We can't stop 3-betting for fear of getting randomly cold 4-bet. That's silly.

Im not saying that. Read again. Im advocating 3bet/call. If you intend to 3bet/fold it is a poor play to 3bet.

There's a difference between a cold 4-bet and a 4-bet. Being prepared for a 4-bet is one thing, a cold 4-bet is another. 3-bet folding to BB who is only cold 4-betting QQ+, AK, is not a bad play.

This one is super close, you have to believe if he looks down at AK he's going to do this as well. But that's about it, even 10's in that spot looks pretty weak because you've 3 bet 2 players from the SB, which looks strong. And then he 4 bet shoves over the top which looks even stronger, and should only be doing this with QQ+. I don't see what the big deal of 3 bet folding this is, essentially if we fold yes we're turning are hand into a bluff, but we only beat a bluff or chip spaz anyway, why can't we 3 bet fold this without HAVING to GII?

Exactly my point! If we don't 3 bet we are playing an even bigger guessing game as to strength of the villain's hole cards.

In a $100 tournament with no reads I think this is still generally a call-off with JJ.

Facing a cutoff open and button flat a SB three-bet looks very much like a squeeze and BB can have a polar range here with bluffs. The cutoff's range should be relatively wide and the button's range is often going to be capped. Even if there are only bluffs a small percentage of the time, it should be enough to make the call profitable.

If you advocate folding JJ here, that means you're folding a pretty decent chunk of your 3-bet value range.

Why does everyone talk about villains ranges like he’s some grinder. He’s played 2 MTTs ffs. Newbs are jamming all kinds of pps and Axs here

I see hero 3b for value vs. LP opener and caller. But when BB jams this stack size into those stack sizes in LP, he's essentially screaming "come at me bro!"

Its funny how most people are analyzing this as a BvB situation vs. A newb. If you take this all into context: KO MTT, 109 buyin, stack sizes in BU and CO, and hero's actual hand, and how people play a jam in a KO MTT (heavily weighted towards strength, even in a squeeze spot... unless your playing a juggernaut that understands he can do this lighter due to this trend).

Sucks to value 3b vs LP and only find out you're either squeezed or being on a one way trip to value town.

In game its hard not to jizz yourself and licking your chops thinking of the stack you could collect along with the booty. But if we breath and look at all factors, I think we need to have a % that we find a fold button.

OK, Ive changed my mind. I was assuming a cold 4bet from BB would have the same range as a 4bet from the original raiser, but in fact it should be tighter of course. Not sure if it would be as tight as QQ+,AK but still probably make it a fold for us. We need to call approx 14000 to win 24000. 37% and we need to factor in bounty. If villain has any bluffs at all in range (TT or AQs etc) def a call

Everyone's putting way too much stock in the amount of tournaments this player may or may not have played. Unless we have reads to the contrary, we should be treating this villain like a standard player at these stakes. And I'm pretty sure a standard player is going to be bluffing here occasionally and generally jamming top-3 to 5% for value.

nh sorry you lost. ak aq are all in there along with some frequency of worse pairs. you will have to be folding alot of your range here but jj probably makes it in the bottom of your calling range its like jj+ak which is rly tight