So for example in 109 bounty builder the starting bounty is worth 1250 chips

Soo, if a player with a stack of 1250 chips opens utg at blind level 15/30, can i profitably shove 72o on him for 40 bigs? If not, explain why please.

I asked this question in the small stakes mtt and there seem to be different replies.


So for a 109 BB, where you get 25 dollars if you bust a player early on assuming they didn't bust anyone... how many chips are you suppose to add to the pot? I had thought it was the entire starting stack of 5k. But then i read an article that said its only half because prize pool is half bounty so its 2500. But here... the person that posted says a starting bounty is worth 1250 chips only or 25 percent? Which is correct?


So if someone has a 200 dollar bounty on them in a 109 BB, with 5k starting stack... are you suppose to add 40k in chips, 20k in chips or 10k in chips?




I know with these, you are suppose to play a lot looser because of the bounties. Example in a bounty builder say 11 dollar tournament with 2.50 bounties, if that player has 2.50... that means you add the starting stack which is 5000 chips to the pot when calling all in right? You also factor that when considering implied odds right?


Now here is where i'm a bit confused. If you are getting 2 to 1 or more odds due to the bounty... is it pretty much almost any 2 cards all? Well if its 3 to 1 odds or better, its pretty much any 2 cards calling an all in assuming no more action?



Now this is where it gets confusing. Let say a player shoves and you are getting great odds. But this also means its for your entire stack... let say its 15bb or less to make it simple. Like are you calling all in from the BB with say Q10s if that player jams in lojack due to their bounty?


Also is there an easier way to calculate the bounty and pot odds? Example if someone has a 20 dollar bounty on them and each bounty is worth 2.50, well thats 8 x whatever starting stack is which is 5000 so 40000 chips more. But when the number gets a lot bigger, any quick math tricks to calculate it faster?


The other thing is this. How does it work when its heads up? Let say other player has 100 dollar in bounty to make it simple. So bounty is 2.50. So its 40x. So 40 x 5000 starting stack so 200000 more chips. But i know you also get your bounty back right? Or is it 1/2? So let say your bounty that is showing shows 130 dollars. So you factor the other players 100 dollar bounty so 40x the 2.50 bounty... but how much are you suppose to add also to your own bounty? Or you not suppose to? Like when they jam all in... okay 100 dollar bounty so thats 200000 more chips. But you factor yourself chips right and how you do that?

Alright so i looked at some articles and bit confused on the math here. Let say its a bounty tournament 11 dollar buyin with 2.50 bounties. Starting stack of 5000 chips.


So let say blinds are 15/30 with a 3 chip ante to make it simple and 3k starting stack. It folds to sb who jams 167bb all in to make it simple. So here in the BB, if no bounty is involved and it is regular tournament, well you need to call 4970 to win like over 5k in chips so you need big amount of equity to call.


But if this is bounty tournament... do you first look at the players stack size or their bounty amount first? Because i thought you look at the bounty amount... so say its 2.50. I thought it was okay now its over 5k chips to win... but because that player jam all stack and we cover them... that 5k chips is worth 2.50... so its now 4970 to win over 10k chips so you need a bit over 33 percent equity to call? However, i read an article where it says its like 4970 chips to win over 15000 so its like over 3 to 1. However that article did mention when stars bounty tournaments didn't the amount you get but half the amount. But whether its that or not... how is the calculation done here? I always thought it was look at how much their bounty is... let say its 5 dollars when the bounty is 2.50. Then you just add in starting stack which is 5000... times 2.... so another 10000 in chips when factoring pot odds. So this is incorrect?


This gets very confusing the most when it gets to heads up because you get your full bounty back. But how do you calculate this?



Also someone mentioned that when you get to heads up, you are suppose to completely ignore the other player's bounty. Is that true or false? So example in a 11 BB to make it simple with 5k starting stacks... lets just say the other players bounty is 200 dollars. Thus if the other player jams... well... i would thought 200/2.50 bounty = 80. Then take 80 X 5k starting stack so 400k more in chips. Then factor that into it. So that incorrect? Because others say its only 1/2 the starting stack in a bounty builder. So it would be 40 x 5k so 200k more in chips? However someone mentioned in heads up, you are suppose to ignore bounty calculation because its basically you win all the chips or nothing as its basically a heads up sng at the end? So that would mean if that player jams all in... you are suppose play normally heads up AS OPPOSE TO ADDING the 400k or 200k or 100k chip into the equation?

The way I would look at this is to estimate what range of hands will call my shove and what % of time Villain will fold.

So jamming with 72o for example if villain opens 20% UTG at this level and will call your shove with QQ+/AKs which we will call 5% of the time for sake of argument, you will win ~120 chips 95% of the time (for +114), and you will win the bounty + chips which we will estimate at 2,620 approximately 12% of the 5% (for +16) and you will lose 1,250 chips 88% of the 5% (for -50). So you will net about 80 chips on avg the first time you do it.

But that is if you are in the BB. If you were to jam UTG+1 then the problem is anyone else behind you who picks up AA/KK/QQ/etc. or who is willing to gamble can call and if they have more chips than you, you now lose half of your equity because you are no longer playing for a bounty.

Also, remember that after you do it a few times everybody will now widen your range and will be calling wider.

So for bounties on a single hand shoving any two with nobody behind you can be very effective to win a smallish pot. To me that isn't worth the chance of having my chip stack decimated when called. But it may be worth it if you know you are never doing it again without AA/KK and hope to provoke a call.

This reminds me of an all-in or fold tourney I played at the Borgota. Where it made no sense to shove without AA but at some point you had to in order to pick up pots...