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Heads up vs. a constant raiser Heads up vs. a constant raiser

08-22-2019 , 10:18 AM
Heads up from about 125. Been playing heads up for about 2 hours. 1.3 Mil in chip total and neither of us has gone below 400,000 for the 2 hours. Once we got to heads up villian started raising about 90% when first to act preflop. And he would raise 2-2.3X. He was also Cbetting at a very high frequency. He's folded to any aggressive response from me except one time he called my preflop shove with A9 and we split.
Blinds 12500-25000 2500

Villian - 750,000 dealer
Hero- 550,000 BB

Preflop Villian raises to 50,000. Hero calls with Qh6d.

Flop AhAs6s

Hero checks, Villian bets 30,000

Hero?

And more importantly, are there any useful tactics to use shorthanded against a high freq preflop raiser? Should i tighten up and challenge only with the top of my range? Obviously a shove is a good counter but i always feel I end up countering when Villian actually has something. What is a good 3 bet sizing against this type of player always raising pre 2-3x. Also some villians with this high freq raising raise pre 4x-5x, what about against that type of opponent?
Heads up vs. a constant raiser Quote
08-22-2019 , 11:51 PM
Generally, I don't respond to the type of player you're describing by becoming more aggressive (i.e. 3 betting lighter), although it's a viable strat. I will call down lighter.
So it's not as simple as 'challenge only top of your range'. Besides, if you do that you're at the mercy of the cards and more often than not he'll run you over.

As for you hand I don't see much to do on this flop besides call.

If some guy is opening 4x-5x with 90% frequency, then that's awesome for you. I'd almost never 3 bet, but I don't think such a villain exists so not much point in speculating
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08-24-2019 , 10:34 AM
Ok I jammed and he had 77 and I sucked out on him and won it 2 hands later. Was that a punt to shove it all in there?

As far as the type of villian I mentioned. Maybe I didnt explain it right but i do run into opponenets who after building a top stack ( maybe twice as large as the next at the table or lets say +60BBs) start raising pre 4x-5x at a very high frequency. I find this difficult as it prevents me from realizing some equity on some of my mid range hands. Prevents me from building MY chip stack as we get to the bubble, into the money and further. I like playing my pretty cards, but its hard to do when facing a 5x raise every hand with 4 to act behind.
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08-25-2019 , 01:44 AM
Very standard strat heads up to 2x (approx) pre. V is in position post flop and therefore should raise 2BB to build pots where V has the pf advantage. V high c-bet % is related and also optimal given that you don't connect over 50% flops

V must be running pretty bad (or you must be showing aggression at a really low frequency) for V to be folding to any Hero raise post

summary: i don't see anything unusual from the first part of OP and V seems competent

as to specific hand / questions:

1. it's a really interesting scenario, especially at this stack depth. with a high c-bet freq V retains all Ax in range but also has every other combo in range including some fd and 77+ hands. your range is somewhat capped with the pre flat (i.e. not as much Ax). i think with this mix it should be a flat, but remember V has the range advantage. side note: if V leads again on the turn and you raise, you'll get a definitive answer and likely fold out some rare 77 etc - but if V bet/3! otf then V may simply be raising with range advantage given that you don't have much Ax and would probably 100% flat with any A-rag you do have

2. in terms of a strat to combat a frequent 2BB raiser heads-up, first just accept that this is standard strat and nothing unusual. a very high % of combos should be raised to 2BB and you should be doing the same. there are GTO charts for fold / defend / raise so just find them and commit to memory.

Edit: lol, just saw that V had exactly 77

Last edited by oldsilver; 08-25-2019 at 01:52 AM.
Heads up vs. a constant raiser Quote
08-27-2019 , 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
Very standard strat heads up to 2x (approx) pre. V is in position post flop and therefore should raise 2BB to build pots where V has the pf advantage. V high c-bet % is related and also optimal given that you don't connect over 50% flops

V must be running pretty bad (or you must be showing aggression at a really low frequency) for V to be folding to any Hero raise post

summary: i don't see anything unusual from the first part of OP and V seems competent

as to specific hand / questions:

1. it's a really interesting scenario, especially at this stack depth. with a high c-bet freq V retains all Ax in range but also has every other combo in range including some fd and 77+ hands. your range is somewhat capped with the pre flat (i.e. not as much Ax). i think with this mix it should be a flat, but remember V has the range advantage. side note: if V leads again on the turn and you raise, you'll get a definitive answer and likely fold out some rare 77 etc - but if V bet/3! otf then V may simply be raising with range advantage given that you don't have much Ax and would probably 100% flat with any A-rag you do have

2. in terms of a strat to combat a frequent 2BB raiser heads-up, first just accept that this is standard strat and nothing unusual. a very high % of combos should be raised to 2BB and you should be doing the same. there are GTO charts for fold / defend / raise so just find them and commit to memory.

Edit: lol, just saw that V had exactly 77
Thanks for the advice and the thought processes. I'm playin on anonymous, but when I saw his playstyle change when we went heads up I knew he was going to be competent and difficult to deal with, that's why 2 hours in, lawn fully mowed and edged, phone drenched in sweat, maybe I made a mistake by shoving here.
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08-28-2019 , 02:01 AM
This is live mtt correct?

If was online there's always a chance a HU expert ghosted short handed, but that's somewhat difficult to do live.

I think the shove was a pretty clear error otf as you probably aren't shoving trips+ on a rainbow flop so your range is face up 6x. You have some equity denial considerations there for sure, but sometimes we simply can't raise to deny equity because ranges don't allow it. This is a great example of that. Sometimes you have to just call down and wear the variance.
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08-28-2019 , 07:16 AM
Thanks I see what you mean. Face up. This was online.
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08-30-2019 , 10:17 AM
No reason in jamming there just a call. Also you could have had shoved pre flop with that hand espicelly if you thinks he raise lightly and you got a tight image probably wouldnt work in that case though. Congrats for winning the tourny!!!!!
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08-30-2019 , 07:21 PM
I think jamming on the flop is bad... He calls you only with an ace or a pair, and most of them are bigger than yours.

What about jamming preflop? You have aprox. 20 BB and as you said he is raising almost everyhand... I would had jam preflop...
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08-31-2019 , 08:54 AM
Assuming we have no additional info on V's hand PREFLOP because of the frequency of his raising, is jamming Q6o heads up a +eV play? I have not begun to use any software although that might be in my future. But i would think Q6o is borderline at best?

I do agree Flop jam is bad and got confirmation on here. But as far as preflop I had jammed a decent amount in prior hands with this guy. I feel Q6o would leave me in a pretty sitty spot on a call. Which he woulda called with 77 on this particular hand. I had jammed earlier off the same raise from him with A5o and he had A9o and called and we split. Its a deceptive strat from him imo which he probably employed because i was showing to be on the nitty side at first. But as oldsilver mentioned, this is a standard strat and just accept it and maybe dont go crazy because of it.
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08-31-2019 , 10:25 AM
Q6o is not a shove pre, it’s a borderline call
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08-31-2019 , 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalrenas
I think jamming on the flop is bad... He calls you only with an ace or a pair, and most of them are bigger than yours.

What about jamming preflop? You have aprox. 20 BB and as you said he is raising almost everyhand... I would had jam preflop...
Vs 90% opener shove preflop is best play for sure, you win 3bb more than 80% of time and when called you have 30% so you loose 20-0.3*40bb = 8bb, so ev is 0.8 * 3 - 0.2*8 = +0.8bb which is huge, because call is maybe +0.1bb-+0.2bb.

I am husng reg on Stars and vs that agressive opponents you should always shove very wide while they dont adjust. I think that shove on flop is bad because you have more that 3x stack to pot ratio so its ok to just call, because on that flop you shouldnt have raising range, he can have all Ax, you cant have that because you should 3b shove it preflop. So on Axx flops my default is x/c.
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08-31-2019 , 08:27 PM
^ok nice post cheers
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08-31-2019 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmanvil
...

And more importantly, are there any useful tactics to use shorthanded against a high freq preflop raiser? Should i tighten up and challenge only with the top of my range? Obviously a shove is a good counter but i always feel I end up countering when Villian actually has something. What is a good 3 bet sizing against this type of player always raising pre 2-3x. Also some villains with this high freq raising raise pre 4x-5x, what about against that type of opponent?
With < 25 blinds I will be shoving frequently vs an opponent who raises like 80% to 90% of the time. This will include a range like Ax/KXs/K9+/Q8+/J9+/22+/most SC's and 1 gappers.

This mitigates position completely and we will take it down a large % of the time. When we are in bad it is often with 40%+ equity. Also, I have seen players resort to limping OTB with their weaker hands because they anticipate we will raise but not shove vs. a limp. I almost never do because I think playing OOP in small pots vs playing in position with larger pots is a huge advantage.

I will tighten up a little and fold my bottom ~20% of non-suited hands.

Versus consistent 4x or 5x raises I will shove with an effective stack of up to 40 BB's.

Deep stacked, we can choose which hands to 3-bet effectively and we should be somewhat balanced but I will try to pot control OOP as much as possible.

With Q6o I am calling pre-flop and on the flop here hoping to be ahead which I think we are more than 50% vs his 90% opening range. Raising the flop will get all hands that we beat to fold and pretty much all hands that we are behind will call. So much of the time when we have Ax we will just be calling here hoping villain will barrel again. And if we have a flush draw, we will be shoving almost always, balancing with a few of our Ax hands.

In this case whether we won because a 6 came off or a Q, we get to bet the river (if he checks back the turn) and he will call with his 77 because we can have a flush draw or a pair <77 that we think we mistakenly think we can get value from...

If we were ahead on the flop and he checks the turn we will have won the max anyway unless villain takes another shot on the river, assuming we check all three streets.
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