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fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS

08-18-2019 , 09:12 AM
Ant thoughts welcome on turn and river. Preflop and flop seem straightforward.

PokerStars, $50 + $5 - Hold'em No Limit - 30/60 (8 ante) - 8 players


UTG: 8,378 (140 bb)
UTG+1: 5,424 (90 bb)
MP: 6,965 (116 bb)
MP+1 (Hero): 3,415 (57 bb)
CO: 5,302 (88 bb)
BU: 5,357 (89 bb)
SB: 4,844 (81 bb)
BB: 6,986 (116 bb)

Pre-Flop: (154) Hero is MP+1 with 4 4
UTG raises to 132, 2 players fold, Hero calls 132, 4 players fold

Flop: (418) 5 5 3 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets 265, UTG calls 265

Turn: (948) 2 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets 305, UTG calls 305

River: (1,558) 6 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets 660, UTG raises to 7,668 (all-in)

Hero?
fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS Quote
08-18-2019 , 09:35 AM
Villain should bet flop with most bdfd combos, making any other value than 55,66 less likely holding for regular. Not sure if your flop and turn bets are standard, but at least turn sizing is good vs Ax holdings that have dead outs. Villain should enter river with many Ah blockers compared to value holdings, hero has many flushes but also some weaker value hands so this is borderline. Against weaker nonmaniac players this should be fold, just because they have a lot more flushes in range as played.
fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS Quote
08-18-2019 , 09:35 AM
When you bet the river was it to bet / fold ?

Edit: I think I’m calling tbh. If V has 55 66 or hh and plays this weird and gins river then so be it

Last edited by oldsilver; 08-18-2019 at 09:50 AM.
fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS Quote
08-18-2019 , 12:45 PM
flop bet ok.
turn bet accomplishes nothing for this sizing. it doesn't fold anything out, its barely a v-bet, and it opens us up to getting xr'd. I would bet larger (if you think V is pretty capped to Ax with his XC lines here) or X.
River I would bet a normal size, 60-65%.

Easy fold to XR, this is pretty low in our range and no way V is bluffing here with Hero having all kinds of boats on this action (assuming you don't split river -- which would be ******ed).
fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS Quote
08-18-2019 , 01:35 PM
My thoughts are extremely few will take this line with enough bluffs to make this even a 0EV call, we have no relevant blockers, it is bottom of range given trips has better blockers, and he’s never overvaluing worse or a chop. Bish-bash-bosh. Y’all gon burn yourselves out burning mental energy on these spots.
fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS Quote
08-19-2019 , 04:56 PM
Why do you think you should call here given the board texture and pot odds? You only have a bluff catcher.

Given the action, why did you bet the river?
fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS Quote
08-19-2019 , 09:44 PM
Looks like a spazzy shove.

Makes it genius when you have what he has if he has the nuts, but I pay it off.

I also see nothing wrong with the river bet. I play live as I live in PA and our state is run by a bunch of idiots. River check raises happen, but are not frequent. Maybe it happens a lot more online.

I think he finds a lot of calls that can't beat a straight.

All 5's, most 6's, any over pair.

I do think your turn sizing could be criticized.

Last edited by Smudger2408; 08-19-2019 at 09:56 PM.
fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS Quote
08-24-2019 , 08:24 PM
I dont get the river bet at all,what worst hands are calling you on that flush/paired board? Anyway fold as played,highly doubtful this is a bluff after you have bet all the way
fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS Quote
08-25-2019 , 01:53 PM
Turn can certainly also be a check, but you are not maximizing your EV by pure checking turn.

In fact pretty sure on such a wet turn you can go with much bigger sizing, also repping stronger hands to keep V's x/r frequency in line and also repping unmade hands including KTs, QJs, et al to incentivize V to continue even as wide as just naked A-high (don't think Ac9c can fold if you bareel 2/3rd pot OTT)

V also is likely exploitably weak here since it makes no sense for him to x any hand in lieu of cbetting something small. Hence barreling for turn using bigger sizing may be even better in practice than it is in theory.

Would be a pretty trivial river shove were you to barrel with larger sizing, yes losing to flushes and boats sometimes but also repping enough whiffed spades and even as weak as two naked overs such that V needs to snap as weak as 77 at least sometimes lest he becomes extremely exploitable.

But AP you've given him a chance to flex his bluffing muscles and since most V's never do that nearly as well or as often as they should you can fold now. In theory his best bluffs include AhXo and AhQo so try to make a quick determination about what he's doing with those combos in particular because that's kind of what makes or breaks this spot for you. And do realize that you're being highly exploitative by folding so hey this very well could be a call.
fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS Quote
08-25-2019 , 07:50 PM
Honestly it is a tough situation i think i would have been calling this though unless i got some other info on villian .


Btw this whole situation could have been avoided by checking the turn which is the better play at tournament games in my opinion. Lets say you check the turn then bet 400 on the river and than you would have an easy fold to an all in .
What were you trying to accomplish by that turn bet? Most hands that pays you on the flop will pay on the turn and the only thing you can accomplish is getting into a guessing game on the river. I mean any 5/3 will most likely wont go away from your turn bet also an ace that called you on the flop (now at least he got a straight draw), if he called you with flush draw /straight draw on the flop he wont go away , if he called with a backdoor flush draw now hell defeintly wont go away.
So on the turn he wont go away and you got only 8 cards which you wont be scared to get it in the river so there are 38 cards which puts you at tough spots like this so why making such a huge pot?

So overall in the river i would call
However this is another situation of making an unecessery big pots
fold straight to check raise on the river?  PS Quote

      
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