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Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp

12-09-2019 , 10:26 PM
$400 buy in live tourney 10 handed middle of day 1 BB ante

Hero UTG 2 60BB card dead for 2 hours and played almost no hands.
MP 60BB Hasn’t played many hands, seems passive overall.
LP 65BB Very good LAG 1.3M in live earnings, unpredictable and strong.

I raise KJs, MP and LP call. Flop T97r. I do not have bdfd.

I think cc has some merit as we have a straight blocker, a gutter and 2 overs and we avoid bloating the pot oop and both opponents can hit this board well.

I think cbetting could also be a thing and if it were hu it would be low freq and for a larger size, but 3 handed we may want to size down. Either way, I don’t think cbetting happens often and I think a lot of turns could be hard to play.

We could also cr. I don’t think MP ever bets but LP will have a high stab freq and by cr we can push out MP and apply pressure to LP whole rng. But both opponents are uncapped on this board and we bloat the pot.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-09-2019 , 11:39 PM
I'd start with a check. xc, xr, xf depending on action, reads, feels. Why make a decision before seeing what happens, but your hand is versatile.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-10-2019 , 06:55 PM
I like your analysis of the spot, start with check and lean towards check call depending on action. I would like x/r a lot more w bdfd but even so, multiway on this board is probably not a good idea.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-10-2019 , 09:53 PM
I agree with both of you this spot is a check.

I have leaned more toward a cc given our positions and the uncapped nature of my opponents range.

However, a cr still has some merit I think given we block KT, JT and the straight as well as some of our opponents float range and we have some eq. If we cc it feels like we are at the mercy of the turn card rather than being able to leverage initiative and fold equity.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-12-2019 , 07:24 PM
This being a 3 way pot makes analyses more difficult but a cr may be too wide if lp has a tighter stab rng.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-13-2019 , 06:31 AM
Check fold you have nothing here in a multipot,flop hits their ranges way harder than you.People play more honestly/passively in multipots.
Check rasing is daft,check calling oop not so daft but not good
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-13-2019 , 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BicycleRepairMan
Check fold you have nothing here in a multipot,flop hits their ranges way harder than you.People play more honestly/passively in multipots.
Check rasing is daft,check calling oop not so daft but not good
I can be on board with no cr, but i feel we need to peel one here if lp bets. I can see rngs contracting and lp not betting as wide here in a mw pot, but i don't think his rng contracts a lot. He is a very agg player and he doesn't know me or mp. To him, we may not necessarily have a well balanced flop chk rng and may be capped. With 2 overs and a gutter i feel we call one in the flop.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-13-2019 , 09:48 PM
Don’t you have a double gutter?
Pretty sure you get to bet 1/4-1/3 here on this rainbow board
C/r is probably not a think @ any kind of meaningful frequency
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-14-2019 , 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016
Don’t you have a double gutter?
Pretty sure you get to bet 1/4-1/3 here on this rainbow board
C/r is probably not a think @ any kind of meaningful frequency
Yeah it is a double gutter. The thing about cbetting is if we get called in one spot and the turn bricks it makes turns hard to play as we block our opp folding rng.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-14-2019 , 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundSpeed
Yeah it is a double gutter. The thing about cbetting is if we get called in one spot and the turn bricks it makes turns hard to play as we block our opp folding rng.
Which is fine it’s def better than x/c 1/2-3/4 pot or x/r or x/f only thing that sucks is if we bet and get raised but it’s not that big a deal
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-14-2019 , 12:50 PM
My instincts are c/c, and that this hand is a little too strong to turn into a bluff. I'd rather use a hand like AJs with a BDFD as a semibluff. If we are 3 bet, we can easily toss that into the much; whereas we fold away a lot of equity with this hand if we are 3 bet on the flop.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-14-2019 , 07:06 PM
Only one side of our double gutter is to the nuts and if someone were to raise a cbet i believe their rng would be incredibly strong and we would have to fold. I think given the low freq of a raise it is not something to worry about.

My issue with cbetting is playing the turn. I think it would be a bit difficult, though not horrible depending on opp sizing, to cc the turn. We could also choose to barrel but end up barreling into a somewhat uncapped rng.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-15-2019 , 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundSpeed
Yeah it is a double gutter. The thing about cbetting is if we get called in one spot and the turn bricks it makes turns hard to play as we block our opp folding rng.
Damn i missed that lol.so i think just a check call,i dont like a cr still on that board what are you repping,on that board,doesnt hit your range.
Dont like cbetting as you do block their draw calling range and getting raised is not nice.
OOP in multiway pots just play defensively
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-15-2019 , 11:21 AM
I like this spot.

I think this is a c/c against LP all day.

If mp somehow takes the aggression, I actually kinda like a x/r. He'll fold a ton of hands that you're doing poorly against, and if he 3-bets to any reasonable size you can fold immediately. (I don't really like just calling Mr. passive when cards like K, 8, and J might all be a problem for you).

Also: don't worry too much about stuff like live earnings/reputations.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-16-2019 , 02:43 AM
I think by cr flop we rep our own sets, but it seems we should not really play overprs with a cr mw, so our valur cr rng does seem very narrow.

It seems cc would be the way to go.

As for presenting the live earnings the purpose here was just to show that opp showed lag tendencies but would seem to have a degree of control and reasoning behind his actions. It may help posters here form an opinion.

In game, knowing he was a successful pro also helps me to know he has capabilities. He can bluff, he likely has wider rngs than recs, and he probably has decent knowledge of gto to be successful nowadays. It can provide clues for me to construct his rngs.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-16-2019 , 05:03 AM
Actually on that board I think even heads up it should be a check with a lot of your range,even AA,Kk would check a lot here oop.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-16-2019 , 07:11 AM
cf is unduly nitty but can see the range (dis)advantage issues if we cbet

may be some deep small cbet or potentially overbet cbet PIO solution but intuitively i'd be fine to cc any reasonable size and go from there, it's checked back often enough
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-18-2019 , 04:09 AM
I agree, this is a high chk spot even hu, could even rng chk.

Cannot ever see cf.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote
12-18-2019 , 05:01 AM
If it goes bet-raise, possibly bet-call, then x/f would play as an option.
Flop decision 3 way semi deep vs very good opp Quote

      
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