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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 01-17-2010, 05:56 AM   #1
charder30
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First hand of PCA Highroller

Yes FIRST! hand....

I believe theres about 6 people at the table, but the BB is not there. 150/300. 60k starting stacks...

I open to 900 with AsKc
folds to ZeeJustin in MP, and he makes it 3k really quickly. Folds to me and i call.

Flop is Ax8s7s.. I check, Justin bets 3500, I call.

Turn Ks.. I check, Justin bets 11500, I call.

River Tx.. I check, Justin Shoves...I....?

Justin shoved quite quickly on the river and im not sure how he perceives me, maybe as someone who doesnt want to bust the first hand of a highroller? We have played in the past with not much history.
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:03 AM   #2
younggun_AK
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

Call.....
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:21 AM   #3
Clayton
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

id fold the river and be pretty happy about it, there's just so many more arguments for folding the river than calling IMO. i think every other decision is 100% standard.

1) all the spade draws are there for justin 200bb deep in position, and bb sitting out
2) you can have all the spade draws as well, raising the turn with any hand is pretty spewy, and in turn he bet the pot so you cant really fold anything like AxQs or QsTs which is what ur repping. so air-bluffing in justins spot is pretty heroic since you can definitely have all the big flushes.
3) There aren't many pure air combinations on the river for Justin, especially when hero has the A
4) He knows you're capable of knowing his range could be polarized and thus capable of herocalling with 1 pair just as often as a small flush
5) Justin probably thinks given all the factors like BB sitting out + first hand of 25k could level you into herocalling more than herofolding, hence the overbet.

I think point 3 is the biggest factor
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:22 AM   #4
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

and to be devils advocate, arguments for calling:

1) You have the As, and the overbet shove with any non-nut flush could be a suicidal valuecut
2) a bunch of Queen and Jack-high flushes, combinatorically speaking, are flatting preflop
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:38 AM   #5
Todd Terry
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

I thought it was 50K starting stacks? (Also anyone who thinks Daniel didn't **** up the structure of this event should look at this hand, sweet to be faced with a decision for all your chips in a $25K event where it goes 3bet/call pre and then bet/bet/bet post).

4bet pre, I despise flatting 3bets OOP with AKo, especially against people who play well post.

I think this is a call for the reasons stated in Clayton's 2nd post.
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:56 AM   #6
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

this line doesen't have any sense imho (in the 1st hand) unless he has QsJs QsTs JsTs (3bet pf??) and he knows you can't have never the nutz here and you can call with some 2p (obv only AK)/set or unless he has QsX so he's bluffing cause you should never have AsJs etc in your range, i think i call
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Old 01-17-2010, 01:54 PM   #7
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

Anyone like check/shoving (or check/raise to 28k/call) the turn as a semi-bluff (Edit: some possible merge+freeroll value too) better than check/call, check/reevaluate? I mean if we're going to check/call this on the turn, don't we have to check/call basically all rivers? Our implied odds are not very good (maybe on the A/K rivers but a K might not make our hand best). So we're not really getting odds to call to hit a spade or A/K.

Also, it's hard for us to rep the nut/second nut flush here when we check/call the turn. His range should have AA/KK/AK in it a lot so we would raise the turn for value with these hands.

I feel like the only viable lines on the turn here against someone who's capable of quad-barreling is check/call, check/call and check/raise/call.

Last edited by ImAllInNow; 01-17-2010 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 01-17-2010, 01:58 PM   #8
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

i fold for all the reasons clayton posted
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:48 PM   #9
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

What were exact pf positions? You played it perfect up to the river I'm not sure what I do know. Its very close.
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Old 01-17-2010, 02:54 PM   #10
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Terry View Post

I think this is a call for the reasons stated in Clayton's 2nd post.
+1
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:43 PM   #11
Tyler Durden
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
and to be devils advocate, arguments for calling:

1) You have the As, and the overbet shove with any non-nut flush could be a suicidal valuecut
2) a bunch of Queen and Jack-high flushes, combinatorically speaking, are flatting preflop
I think it's a must call b/c of these reasons and I think a chop is somewhat likely.
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Old 01-17-2010, 03:53 PM   #12
gotwotevaon
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

He either has 96ss or J9ss and you are not beating neither of them..
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:00 PM   #13
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

justin is not shoving ak for value here, donno about the rest
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:15 PM   #14
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

wat u think justin thinks ur pf range is?
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:33 PM   #15
Kramerica
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

LOL and call

no i really don't know, this is a brutal spot. I've never played a 25k, but I've played bonomo enough to know he's bat **** insane

i think i prefer re raising him pre to avoid stuff like this, or just fold pre if we are going to play this passive
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Old 01-17-2010, 05:53 PM   #16
KRANTZ
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

call obv this is not your average



this is

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Old 01-17-2010, 05:55 PM   #17
skanky980
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

that took me way too long
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Old 01-17-2010, 05:55 PM   #18
charder30
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

ahh sorry, 50k ss, so justins shove was less then pot.
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:25 PM   #19
Tyler Durden
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

After thinking about this some more, I think the fact that there are only 6 players at the table is really important and increases the likelihood of ZJ having 88, 77 and random spades (trying to resteal). So maybe it is a fold.
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:50 PM   #20
ShannonShorr
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

Justin Bonomo is as capable as anyone of bluffing this river, but I still think we need to find a fold since he's gonna show us something like 54ss so often. Who knows he might even have a real hand like the case two Aces or case two Kings, both hands that he'd shove the river with. It's pretty obvious you smashed the flop, and to me it looks like ZJ is betting big on the turn to set up a shove for value on the end.
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:54 PM   #21
Tyler Durden
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

I wonder if hero having the A means we should consider checkraising all-in on the turn when the third spade hits. Tho obviously ZJ doesn't need the nuts to call.
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Old 01-17-2010, 06:56 PM   #22
Eagles
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

I like your line, now call. Its not a fistpump but ZJ has a bluffing range in this spot which means you are good enough of the time to call a psb.
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:32 PM   #23
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

Sick spot. Close on river, I would have liked a turn shove as well. I think I probably call river.
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Old 01-17-2010, 08:33 PM   #24
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRANTZ View Post
call obv this is not your average



this is

LOL
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Old 01-17-2010, 09:07 PM   #25
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Re: First hand of PCA Highroller

i think he has the flush here most of the time but the only reason to check both flop and turn is to c/c all streets so i think if i played this hand i've painted myself in a corner to call
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