Final 12 of the ACR Sunday Warmup - MTT Poker Strategy - Multi Table Tournament Poker Forum

I had a tricky spot yesterday in the Sunday Warmup on ACR. For those unfamiliar, it's a $109 buyin and $250k guarantee.

Two 6-handed tables (8-max tables) and I was in 5th of 12 at the time. I had 35bbs and there were 3 or 4 players with about 10bbs.

I'm in the BB with J3cc. Folds to the CO (30bbs) who minraises. I call.

Flop hits J94xxc. I check, and he bets 1.8bbs.

What's the best way to play this?

I decided to check raise to 7bbs. He called. Turn was an 8 completing the rainbow. What do you do?

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05-10-2021 , 06:14 PM

Bubblebust

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Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 830

I think I x/c here on the flop hoping it checks down. Probably fold to a turn bet -- maybe too weak, and maybe why I need to improve my short stack game.

As played, what do you think V's calling range is on the flop? It's a very dry flop with the only real draws being QT/KQ/KT. Maybe he calls TT??? (I wouldn't). Maybe he got sticky with AQ/AK, but I think a big part of his range is destroying you (AJ/KJ, overpairs and some J9 and sets) and is not going to muck if you decide to barrell it. So I guess you give up, or hope it checks down.

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05-10-2021 , 06:42 PM

auralex14

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,914

When he called the flop, I put his range on KQ/K10/Q10, any pair that hit the flop (A9/K9/A4/etc). I discounted KK and QQ which I think just shove over my flop CR (except AA prob just calls). Maybe an AK or AQ that had a back door flush draw, but that’s ambitious. I think he calls 1010 also in this spot, but perhaps you’re right that he’d drop that.

Edit: once he just called the flop, I also discounted him having a better Jack.

Last edited by auralex14; 05-10-2021 at 07:07 PM.

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05-10-2021 , 07:31 PM

Bubblebust

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Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 830

If you range him there (I'd range him stronger, but not saying you're wrong), then you barrel.

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05-10-2021 , 09:21 PM

persianpunisher

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Seems like an overplay. Do you really want to GII by the river for value? I would flat 100% of the time with this hand.

You think he's just piling 30bbs with all his Jx after you c/raise flop?

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05-10-2021 , 10:48 PM

auralex14

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I was also concerned I may have overplayed it, def possible. But to answer your question, yea I think he prob piles it in after my CR w a jack. We’d both have about a PSB behind so anything would happen on the turn.

That was my thought at the time, but I certainly could be wrong

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05-10-2021 , 11:17 PM

Jkpoker10

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,982

I think you wanna flat the cbet here. I’m not a fan of making it 7bbs either. I feel it’s too much on shallow stacks. Think you can make it 3x-3.5x his bet and have same fold equity etc etc.

By making it 7bb, good luck playing the turn here. You put yourself in some real pot odd spots with a pretty meh hand when we kinda don’t mind moving up the pay ladder due to to icm.

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05-10-2021 , 11:41 PM

lolposting2016

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Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2,149

You don’t really start taking a weak top pair and putting it into the x/r range - vs the button it might be ok but vs the co range which is pretty strong hands like tp get put into the x/c range
Anyways ott it’s a pretty easy check
Hands like 4x with a back door get x/r with a high frequency

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05-11-2021 , 12:12 AM

auralex14

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,914

I agree that my check raise was too big. Thanks for the feedback guys, seems like the consensus is overplay. I know it’s not relevant but I’m always curious so I’ll say I jammed turn and he tank-folded.

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05-11-2021 , 08:42 AM

#10

ledn

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Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,107

Quote:

Originally Posted by auralex14

Nice bluff probably

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05-11-2021 , 11:30 AM

#11

3for3poker

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Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,503

Interesting spot. First, there is a fair bit of ICM pressure here as you are middle stacks going against each other. You have Villain covered, so that is good (but not great) for you.

I am not sure why you think Villain is so capped on the flop. With just one PSB left, he has little incentive to jam anything in his range.

Your turn jam is close to a game theory disaster. He isn't folding better, and his calls with worse will mostly have a pair plus a straight draw.

One way to think about the tank/fold: What were you hoping he'd do? If you don't know....

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05-11-2021 , 12:03 PM

#12

deuceblocker

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Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 3,383

Why make it difficult? I would call the flop with the idea of usually calling down. You might fold eventually to some bets, sizings, and runouts. If he checks back the turn and the board doesn't look scary, maybe bet the river unimproved. I would generally x/r a more polarized range and call down with hands like this.

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05-11-2021 , 07:49 PM

#13

auralex14

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,914

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3for3poker

Your turn jam is close to a game theory disaster. He isn't folding better, and his calls with worse will mostly have a pair plus a straight draw.

One way to think about the tank/fold: What were you hoping he'd do? If you don't know....

With the 20bbs already in the middle I wanted him to fold, even though I thought there was a good chance he’d call with worse (but he’d have the straight outs, cause I agree with your assessment).

I don’t see how he folds anything that has me beat, but it’s possible he let a better jack go.

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05-11-2021 , 07:50 PM

#14

auralex14

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,914

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuceblocker

I think this was prob the way to play it. Generally, and this may be a leak, when I’m nearing the final table I kick my aggression up quite a bit. But this was prob too reckless.

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05-18-2021 , 03:16 PM

#15

pierrot_63_97

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Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,065

Is the J3s defense in BB standard ? I just fold pf there

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05-18-2021 , 04:08 PM

#16

3for3poker

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Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,503

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierrot_63_97

Is the J3s defense in BB standard ? I just fold pf there

Suited hands don't get folded much, if at all, to a minraise. There is something to be said for tightening here with the ICM being bad, so folding can't be terrible.

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05-18-2021 , 04:30 PM

#17

lolposting2016

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pierrot_63_97

Is the J3s defense in BB standard ? I just fold pf there

It’s 100% standard

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05-18-2021 , 06:42 PM

#18

2pairsof2s

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Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,613

This close to the final table, holding a decent workable stack of 35 bb's and 3 or 4 players with about 10bbs. Suited cards are only 3-4% better than unsuited cards in terms of equity, you will make a flush only about once every 14 times you play through to the river. And since you are drawing to J high you will lose at least some of the time when you do hit. Stack preservation and laddering up are real things. This is always a fold IMO.

Last edited by 2pairsof2s; 05-18-2021 at 06:49 PM.

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05-20-2021 , 12:21 AM

#19

deuceblocker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 2pairsof2s

The issue with suited cards isn't allin preflop equity. There is more playability, ability to semibluff, and make big hands which you can play strongly and try to win big pots with. That being said, folding here doesn't lose much.

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05-20-2021 , 10:24 AM

#20

3for3poker

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Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,503

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuceblocker

Harder to realize equity with hands like this when ICM is a real factor.

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05-20-2021 , 04:31 PM

#21

2pairsof2s

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Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,613

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuceblocker

Calling preflop from the blinds with a hand like J-3, suited or unsuited, is a losing proposition. Guys will often make a call with weak holdings out of position based on the fact that the cards are suited. The point I am trying to make is that suitedness actually adds very little to the value of the hand. The situation often becomes dire when you actually hit something as is the case here. Perhaps as little as 2 or 3 orbits from the final table, our hero now has almost a third of his stack invested into a pot where he is holding a paired J with a three kicker. Is that a spot we want to be in?

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05-20-2021 , 05:15 PM

#22

deuceblocker

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Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 3,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2pairsof2s

It was not necessary to checkraise the flop with TPNK. The suitedness adds little value when you hit top pair, but more when you make a flush draw or flush.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3for3poker

Harder to realize equity with hands like this when ICM is a real factor.

You have CO outchipped, so there should be more pressure on him. It is even possible to 3! here.

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05-20-2021 , 08:45 PM

#23

deuceblocker

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Thinking about it, I agree that defending with a hand this weak is marginal. You have pot odds, but playability and position disadvantages. This isn't the weakest suited cards you could have though. The high card has some value and J3s is much better than 72s. I don't know whether the theory on this has really been worked out, but thinking about it, it seems fine to fold J3s. I would almost never fold Kxs or any reasonable suited gapper though getting like 4.5-1 immediate odds.

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05-21-2021 , 07:14 PM

#24

lolposting2016

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Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2,149

It’s a pure call. Nits itt

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05-22-2021 , 01:14 AM

#25

3for3poker

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Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,503

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuceblocker

It was not necessary to checkraise the flop with TPNK. The suitedness adds little value when you hit top pair, but more when you make a flush draw or flush.

You have CO outchipped, so there should be more pressure on him. It is even possible to 3! here.

Sure, there is more pressure on him; but going from 35 to 5 blinds is a disaster even if we don't get knocked out. It is bad for both of us to play a big pot when ICM looms; it is only marginally worse for him. Also, he has the stronger range and position, so he has more 'control' over the hand...

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