Hi guys,

while still digesting all the awesome input on this hand

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...ament-1730035/

I ran into another difficult spot for me. - Sorry for not replying anymore in that thread, but I will really need some time to work on that. Instead I just played another tournament

This one is a much simpler spot, but I am still wondering:


End of day one, average stack is around 45 bb, I have 25~30bb and I am struggling.


Action:

UTG (~25BB) raises 2,5bb, UTG +1 (25bb) calls

Hero UTG+2 (~25 bb-30bb) finds TT and ??????

I elected to call: Two shortish stacks from UTG and UTG+1 play this hand. One of them might have a monster, even best case it would be a flip.

SB or BB (~100BB) calls

Flop: Js9s8

Checked to hero, hero jams, BB calls with J7, hero exits tournament.


While I leave, UTG comments: you should have raised. Didn't really think about it, but maybe he is right. In hindsight yes, that damn J7 would not have called a three bet. But can you 3-bet TT against an UTG raise + UTG+1 call?

!?!?!?!?!!

I'm probably just calling with TT pre-flop for the reasons you gave.

But on the flop why not just check it back? Because UTG and UTG+1 have checked we look good however the SB/BB check doesn't indicate anything. If it checks through again on the turn then I can see jamming.

Why not checking on the flop? Fold equity + equity, apart from a set i cant hit the flop much harder than this. I must admit I have a "skill deficit" with this kind of hands on the turn (it is on my to do list). If you dont hit the turn, your equity just got chopped into half. I kinda agree, maybe i overplayed it on the flop and should have checked back. Will work on this kind of spots

Ok, one opinion that the preflop call was not a huge mistake

“Shoulda have raised” is just bad RO advice, most live players are not good so why listen to what they have for say.

Call pre is best unless you have some reads and wanna 3b/fold I suppose.

I think you played it fine

A 1/3rd bet would achieve everything you can reasonably hope to achieve by betting and then some.

Preflop is good.

As bearer said put in a small bet if betting. Checking back is good as well. Shoving doesn't accomplish anything. Only hands that beat you are calling. ****ty spot all in all post. Play it cautiously. Next time.

I slightly prefer checking btw. Too easy for AQ/KQ to continue v 1/3 with the gutshot and bet/f or bet/c feel awful.

FWIW, at first glance BB calling it off here vs a 2x pot overjam with several players behind and having only a naked pair with a ****ty kicker and a GS seems pretty lulzy. What hands are you supposed to be bluffing here that he's beating, I guess besides TT? Do you even have all the TT combos in your range when you do this? Probably not. On the other hand, you should have 88, 99, JJ, some QT, some 98, some J9 (you're a live villain, after all) and all these hands make for decent overjams on this wet board since all these hands besides QT need some protection and want to get stacks in anyway. Dunno if overjam is optimal with those hands though, just saying it makes at least some sense. The corollary of that is, BBs call seems pretty bad.

That being said, jamming with TT in particular makes no sense OTF: this is live poker, you just don't have enough FE against better or against flips to justify it. So much better to x and take a free card (not to mention get us one street closer to showdown, we still have SD value here so we def should be angling to get there, just for as cheaply as possible) or it you must bet, go much smaller.

Preflop seems fine. I'd rather raise two broadways because those have more resilient equity vs a calling range (we get flopped dead less often w/ like AQ than we do w/ TT) plus the bwy combos have blockers vs a calling range. You're already sort of running bad by having to play this hand in early position vs the strongest possible opening range at the table (UTG) and a really strong flatting range (UTG+1), why commit all your chips preflop under those conditions? Your only sizing that makes sense I think is jam.

As has been said, a normal 3b is your worst option.

End of Day 1, I don't hate shoving pre. Calling's fine, too. For me it would depend on what I thought of the two active players and what I think they think about me.

As played, check the flop.

Don't put yourself in tough spots when you are 'struggling'. Jamming or folding solves that problem.

Coming back with a fresh outlook on a new day is probably best. You obviously won't like it when you are called if you jam, but at least you will have a big stack or a new tournament to play in the next day.

this

UTG/UTG1 VPIP/PFR stacks and average stack info needed to make any sensible discussion around best option pre. flat or shove could be correct. i'm prob shoving in a vacuum.

dislike the flop shove as you're face-up Tx and get calls from J7 and similar all day long. checking or 1/3 pot seem close, but tending to bet because of position. if it sets up a PSB shove ott against a single caller on a brick turn then this becomes a very interesting spot.