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Decent bluff or just a punt? Decent bluff or just a punt?

03-19-2018 , 04:02 PM
Hey guys so Sunday I satied into a decently high (at least relative to what I normally play on my college spring break) Partypoker NJ tournament for $109ish, and played it that same day. Things were going smoothly, and my table seemed pretty soft compared to my expectations. Now I would greatly appreciate some feedback on this hand. BTW, I tried posting this in the Raise Your Edge discord, but you need to convert it, and for whatever reason when I copy the raw text from SharkScope and put it into weaktight's converter my whole cards nor the winner of the hand gets detected. Anybody know why this is? (maybe I'll post that elsewhere on here). Anway, here's the HH:

Alright, tried using 2+2's HH converter, and I have no idea how to make it work. I tried copying, from SharkScope, the "2 +2 format" and pasting it in the converter but without any luck. Hopefully the pre-formatted version will work. Here that is:

No Limit Hold'em Tournament T100/T200
Buy-in: GSSS Spring '18 #1 - $10,000 GTD NLH Six-Max [3x RE]
PartyPoker
6 players
Formatted by SharkScope.com - Track your poker statistics and avoid the sharks

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (T9,728)
MP - MP (T10,776)
CO - CO (T9,280)
BTN - BTN (T10,819)
SB - Hero (T19,218)
BB - BB (T16,164)

Preflop: (T450, 6 players) Hero is SB with Qd Ac
3 folds, BTN raises to T400, Hero raises to T1,300, BB calls T1,100, 1 fold

Flop: 7h Kd Ks (T3,150, 2 players - BB: T14,839, Hero: T17,893)
Hero bets T1,100, BB calls T1,100

Turn: 4s (T5,350, 2 players - BB: T13,739, Hero: T16,793)
Hero bets T3,000, BB calls T3,000

River: 9h (T11,350, 2 players - BB: T10,739, Hero: T13,793)
Hero raises to T13,793 (all-in), BB raises to T10,739 (all-in), Uncalled bet of T3,054 returned to Hero

Total Pot: T32,828
Hero shows Qd Ac (a pair of Kings)
BB shows 4d 4h (a full house, Fours full of Kings)

Hero wins T0
BB wins T32,828 a full house, Fours full of Kings


My thought process was this:
Preflop: pretty standard imo. 3betting more hands than I'm calling. Might call w/ small to middling pairs.
Flop: Think I'm probably betting most of my range here. He was playing 30/23/16 over 82 hands.
Turn: I'm barreling spades, 56s, all my kings, and maybe AA too (think that's two streets, and can bluff catch river).
River: So I thought on the river, at the time, it was a good hand to go 3 streets with as a bluff bc I don't block his spade floats, and we block AK/KQ. In retrospect, he's most likely always 4betting AK at that stack depth. So the A isn't so relevant other than not block a jack or ten. Also, I guess I could've slowed down on the 9, bc that hits his range decently well. Lastly, I think I'm shoving AK and KQ for value, maybe KJ. Thoughts?
Decent bluff or just a punt? Quote
03-20-2018 , 09:55 AM
This is a punt as played imo.

Pre flop - Fine

Flop - Fine

Turn - I suppose i'm fine with you double-barreling here. That being said when the V flats you here his range becomes tiny. When I get flatted here I am totally done with the hand. There's basically no bluffs in V's range. He has strong trip K's and boats. That's basically it imo. (Please don't get so hung up on blockers.) Spade floats with a paired board are extremely unlikely because you have to ask yourself what he's calling you with on the flop that he called a 3b with pre. 78/67ss exactly?

River - Check/fold 100% of the time. What part of V's range is calling turn and folding this brick river? An offsuit 9 completes nothing.

I'm guilty of this myself at times but I think you sorta leveled yourself into making this weird play. You were too focused on what the V should think your range is vs what the V's range is, which is, again, very very small after his turn call imo.

Last edited by raribaudo; 03-20-2018 at 10:01 AM.
Decent bluff or just a punt? Quote
03-20-2018 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raribaudo
This is a punt as played imo.

Pre flop - Fine

Flop - Fine

Turn - I suppose i'm fine with you double-barreling here. That being said when the V flats you here his range becomes tiny. When I get flatted here I am totally done with the hand. There's basically no bluffs in V's range. He has strong trip K's and boats. That's basically it imo. (Please don't get so hung up on blockers.) Spade floats with a paired board are extremely unlikely because you have to ask yourself what he's calling you with on the flop that he called a 3b with pre. 78/67ss exactly?

River - Check/fold 100% of the time. What part of V's range is calling turn and folding this brick river? An offsuit 9 completes nothing.

I'm guilty of this myself at times but I think you sorta leveled yourself into making this weird play. You were too focused on what the V should think your range is vs what the V's range is, which is, again, very very small after his turn call imo.
This is pretty much spot on. I don't think it's impossible that he floated flop with a BDFD like 98ss, but if he did, I would expect him to raise turn after picking up the draw. That's really the only way to make a float like that profitable.

I'd also bet a bit bigger on the flop and a bit smaller on the turn.
Decent bluff or just a punt? Quote
03-20-2018 , 12:42 PM
I'm pretty much done after the flop bet. That board is so dry that villain has a K a good % of the time. Which he is never folding. If villain has a 7 or a PP its not clear that the turn bet will dislodge him anyway because the 4 changes nothing. Similarly with a 9 on the river.

I find that I rarely bet 3 streets for value on a board like this because mostly I won't get paid off on more than 2 streets when I'm ahead and it looks like a bluff (or at best a polarizing bet on the river) when I do bet all 3 streets. So, I get called down a decent % of the time when I 3 bet bluff...

I agree with Polo about bet sizing. To get a small PP to fold on the flop make it look like its going to cost a bit more.
Decent bluff or just a punt? Quote
03-20-2018 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick
I'm pretty much done after the flop bet. That board is so dry that villain has a K a good % of the time. Which he is never folding. If villain has a 7 or a PP its not clear that the turn bet will dislodge him anyway because the 4 changes nothing. Similarly with a 9 on the river.

I find that I rarely bet 3 streets for value on a board like this because mostly I won't get paid off on more than 2 streets when I'm ahead and it looks like a bluff (or at best a polarizing bet on the river) when I do bet all 3 streets. So, I get called down a decent % of the time when I 3 bet bluff...

I agree with Polo about bet sizing. To get a small PP to fold on the flop make it look like its going to cost a bit more.
I actually do like the second barrel here assuming villain is a thinking player. We're cbetting 100% of our range on this flop, which includes a lot of air if we're capable of 3betting light. So if I'm villain I'm peeling pretty wide. Im calling pretty much any medium pocket pair, any 7, AJ/AT because I'm ahead of most of hero's range.

So even though the 4 is just a blank and doesn't change the board at all, there are still a lot of hands in villain's range I can get to fold with a second barrel, and even if I get called again, I usually still have 6 live outs.

Also, if you're getting called down too often when you 3 barrel bluff here, it means you should be betting for 3 streets of value more, not less.
Decent bluff or just a punt? Quote
03-20-2018 , 02:01 PM
Appreciate the feedback. Not that it changes my poor play, but isn't that a pretty bad cold call?
Decent bluff or just a punt? Quote
03-20-2018 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maniacalmonk77
Appreciate the feedback. Not that it changes my poor play, but isn't that a pretty bad cold call?
It's pretty marginal but not terrible in position. If it was me, depends how confident I am in my ability to play postflop.

If I'm playing a bunch of tables, I'm tossing it to avoid the aggravation. If I'm focused and think that I know my opponent has some exploitable postflop tendencies, I can probably call profitably.
Decent bluff or just a punt? Quote
03-20-2018 , 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maniacalmonk77
Appreciate the feedback. Not that it changes my poor play, but isn't that a pretty bad cold call?
I don't think so. He's set mining ip to potentially win 80 bb.

Unlike a couple of the previous responses I actually like your sizing on the flop with a static board like this. I don't see what a bigger bet folds out that wasn't folding to your sizing.
Decent bluff or just a punt? Quote

      
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