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check-raise in multiway pot check-raise in multiway pot

06-20-2018 , 03:09 AM
Poker Stars Hot $22 MTT

PokerStars - 25/50 Ante 6 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 101.68 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 4.17, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 28)
MP+2: 84.62 BB (VPIP: 10.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
CO: 100 BB
BTN: 86.26 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
SB: 102.22 BB (VPIP: 25.81, PFR: 18.52, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 31)
Hero (BB): 108.42 BB
UTG: 113.06 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
UTG+1: 95.6 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
MP: 110.2 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)

9 players post ante of 0.12 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.58 BB) Hero has 5 3

fold, fold, fold, fold, MP+2 raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (10.58 BB, 3 players) Q Q 5
Hero checks, MP+2 checks, CO bets 4.24 BB, Hero raises to 14.82 BB, fold, fold

Hero wins 19.06 BB

Didn't want to give V a chance to hit a stronger second pair, so XR OTF. Any comments on this line?
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-20-2018 , 06:58 PM
How do u play 66-99 here?
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-20-2018 , 10:39 PM
Fold pre.
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-21-2018 , 02:30 AM
move down stakes
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-21-2018 , 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by erc007
How do u play 66-99 here?
Good question! I think that with 99, 88 it would be XC, but 66 and 77 XR - the logic is the same as in the played hand...
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-21-2018 , 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonsimplesimon
Fold pre.
hmmmm....
pot odds to see the flop : 4.3-1
stack : > 100B
hand : 35s

Aren't these good enough reasons to call pre??
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-21-2018 , 04:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson
move down stakes
Thanks for suggesion! In fact I recently moved from $7 buy-in tournaments because it became super-boring, most of tournaments ended up with bad beat or lost all-in with short stack, rest ITM, so I decided to move up, see how it works and learn new tricks..this is how we progress, don't we?
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-22-2018 , 07:07 AM
Bluffcatching in small pots>protection

Also you’re c/r way too wide if you include 5x and small pairs.

I’d rather c/r polarised w/ stuff like 64hh,67ss,Q5s,55 etc. JT,KJ etc w/bdfd is good in a sense that you block Qx but many cards that we barrell ott also hit villains fh range so we have some rio. especially otr making a straight is way worse w/ say JKhh than 64hh.

I think I’m defending (calling/3betting) this pre but it’s marginal and wouldn’t fault you from folding this either.
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-23-2018 , 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gettingood
Bluffcatching in small pots>protection

Also you’re c/r way too wide if you include 5x and small pairs.

I’d rather c/r polarised w/ stuff like 64hh,67ss,Q5s,55 etc. JT,KJ etc w/bdfd is good in a sense that you block Qx but many cards that we barrell ott also hit villains fh range so we have some rio. especially otr making a straight is way worse w/ say JKhh than 64hh.

I think I’m defending (calling/3betting) this pre but it’s marginal and wouldn’t fault you from folding this either.
Very interesting idea on 3-bet pre! Do I understand it correctly that we could do that because our hand is within the bottom of our defending range and we 3-bet with the top of it and the bottom of it to make our play unreadable?
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-23-2018 , 10:31 AM
That’s roughly the idea, yes. Although playability>hot and cold equity when choosing the hands to defend with.
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-23-2018 , 10:56 AM
Here is another hand where I XR'ed OTF all-in because I had two overcards plus bdfd and the pot was already half of my stack...BB called with TPTK and it seems absolutely crazy...any comments on this x/r and his call?


PokerStars - 20/40 Ante 5 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 122.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
CO: 130.37 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
BTN: 151.35 BB (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
Hero (SB): 113.25 BB
BB: 103.9 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
UTG: 116.87 BB (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
UTG+1: 133.52 BB (VPIP: 55.56, PFR: 55.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
MP: 124.75 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has Q K

fold, UTG+1 raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 10 BB, BB calls 9 BB, fold

Flop: (24 BB, 2 players) 2 9 5
Hero checks, BB bets 30 BB, Hero raises to 103.12 BB and is all-in, BB calls 63.77 BB and is all-in

Turn: (211.55 BB, 2 players) 4

River: (211.55 BB, 2 players) 2

Hero shows Q K (One Pair, Twos)
(Pre 45%, Flop 27%, Turn 32%)
BB shows A 9 (Two Pair, Nines and Twos)
(Pre 55%, Flop 73%, Turn 68%)
BB wins 211.55 BB
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-23-2018 , 10:45 PM
his preflop play is very bad, his flop sizing bad, his call off when you jam is standard.
your postflop play is terrible, your opponent has clearly indicated he has a strong holding at multiple decision points and you still xrai.
would strongly suggest moving down or playing some low stakes zoom while you work on fundamentals.
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-24-2018 , 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cizixap
Good question! I think that with 99, 88 it would be XC, but 66 and 77 XR - the logic is the same as in the played hand...
In general (in HU pots) if u don't want to overfold, you don't want ur c/c range to be this close empty imo...if u c/r most of ur 5x;66;77 then u will have to add a lot of offsuit combos of A3-A4 to support ur c/c range (22-44 should be folds so u shouldn't include them.)

If ur check/call range is too weak then u can easily be exploited since 88;99 make up such a small % of ur preflop range (~2%.) With an SPR of 7 to 1, IP can stab 40% with his entire range and auto-profit. He can also barrel turn with minimal equity after u float flop and auto-profit since u won't be able to continue at minimum defense.

In this specific spot, having a very narrow c/c range from BB might actually be fine. Not sure if 88;99 will suffice but it's prob not far from optimal when we're getting squeezed btwn CO's stab and MP2's calling/raising ranges.

That said, your c/r freq should be significantly reduced when the pot is 3-ways. MP2 should be checking most of his strong hands here, so he is not capped and u shouldn't treat his check like a give-up. So a reasonable c/r range (vs these positions in a 3-way pot) might be: AQo; KQo; QTdd+; QTo/w diamond and 55 (33 combos), balanced by: JTs; J9s; 54s; A4s all w/BDFD (11 combos.) We want ~26% bluffs since we are laying CO 2.8 to 1 to call our c/r.

Before i ran the Sim I was thinking A3s-A4s w/BDFD would be our best c/r bruffs since we block the strongest Qx and AKs w BDFD and we can barrel turns when we pick up equity.

If ur HU, then u can use a wider c/r range and u can c/r some of ur 99 combos:



A prerequisite for c/r 5x combos is having a BDFD, can't c/r wout being able to barrel turns when we pick up a BDFD. You can obv include some Qx in your c/c range to bolster/add combos but u lose EV as u add > Qx combos.
check-raise in multiway pot Quote
06-27-2018 , 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by erc007
In general (in HU pots) if u don't want to overfold, you don't want ur c/c range to be this close empty imo...if u c/r most of ur 5x;66;77 then u will have to add a lot of offsuit combos of A3-A4 to support ur c/c range (22-44 should be folds so u shouldn't include them.)

If ur check/call range is too weak then u can easily be exploited since 88;99 make up such a small % of ur preflop range (~2%.) With an SPR of 7 to 1, IP can stab 40% with his entire range and auto-profit. He can also barrel turn with minimal equity after u float flop and auto-profit since u won't be able to continue at minimum defense.

In this specific spot, having a very narrow c/c range from BB might actually be fine. Not sure if 88;99 will suffice but it's prob not far from optimal when we're getting squeezed btwn CO's stab and MP2's calling/raising ranges.

That said, your c/r freq should be significantly reduced when the pot is 3-ways. MP2 should be checking most of his strong hands here, so he is not capped and u shouldn't treat his check like a give-up. So a reasonable c/r range (vs these positions in a 3-way pot) might be: AQo; KQo; QTdd+; QTo/w diamond and 55 (33 combos), balanced by: JTs; J9s; 54s; A4s all w/BDFD (11 combos.) We want ~26% bluffs since we are laying CO 2.8 to 1 to call our c/r.

Before i ran the Sim I was thinking A3s-A4s w/BDFD would be our best c/r bruffs since we block the strongest Qx and AKs w BDFD and we can barrel turns when we pick up equity.

If ur HU, then u can use a wider c/r range and u can c/r some of ur 99 combos:



A prerequisite for c/r 5x combos is having a BDFD, can't c/r wout being able to barrel turns when we pick up a BDFD. You can obv include some Qx in your c/c range to bolster/add combos but u lose EV as u add > Qx combos.
All this

Also:

[x] fold pre
[ ] call oop in spots we are not sure how to play post
check-raise in multiway pot Quote

      
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