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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 02-15-2019, 02:46 PM   #1
ImaLouigi
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Can we call off 60 bbs with just 10's?

$360 NL @ Running Aces (Minnesota), multiple day 1's $100K GTD
*It's worth noting that there were a ton of $90 qualifiers for this event so there is a much higher percentage of unknown/rec players in the field for this buy-in level. Hero plays regularly enough (~15 local events/year) to know most of the tough spots in the field & has never seen V1 or V2 at an event before.

150/300/50
V1 (14K) UTG limps
V2 (19K) UTG+1 raises 800
MP calls
Cutoff calls
Hero (20K) in the SB raises to 3,100 with 10 10

V1 shoves
V2 tank re-shoves (and looks nervous FWIW)
MP & cutoff fold

This is usually an easy fold against known players (or people I have at least some table history with) but I just sat down and if V1 and V2 are potentially weaker spots, can we range them to justify a call especially when getting 2.5 to 1?

Can we put ALL pocket pairs in V1's limp/shove range? What about AKs & AKo?

What is V2's range of raise/shove? Any pocket pairs below 10's? AKs, AKo...and maybe AQs?

I know it's thin but always trying to evaluate for any +EV spots. Hero is ready and willing to fire another bullet if he's wrong
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Old 02-15-2019, 03:56 PM   #2
numberonedonk
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Re: Can we call off 60 bbs with just 10's?

3b is horrible IMO. Flatting is best but if we insist on 3b'ing we need to make it bigger, like 4.5-5k but I still think flat > 3b

Fold now
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:20 PM   #3
Jonezy007
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Re: Can we call off 60 bbs with just 10's?

Yep larger 3 bet or flat I agree

4750

I would probably have to 3 bet large more often than have to flat OOP 4 ways w 10s

Probably calling the all in and racing w AK or one of them has QQ
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:18 AM   #4
3for3poker
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Re: Can we call off 60 bbs with just 10's?

3 bet fold seems so automatic to me. I give somewhat less credit for UTG +1, but how can UTG have hands we dominate?
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:05 AM   #5
bearer
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Re: Can we call off 60 bbs with just 10's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaLouigi View Post
Can we put ALL pocket pairs in V1's limp/shove range?
No. Why would you do that?

I don't get this idea that playing against unknowns gives licence to imagine whatever we want to imagine. Ok you can do that but you don't get to call it range work, call it wishing.

Against unknowns you revert to population tendencies or GTO approximations until you have reason to believe otherwise, so you take the same action as you would default to against the known pool.
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:25 AM   #6
oldsilver
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Re: Can we call off 60 bbs with just 10's?

flat pre, fold now

3K is going multiway v recs every time and gl with that
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:52 AM   #7
ImaLouigi
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Re: Can we call off 60 bbs with just 10's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearer View Post
No. Why would you do that?

I don't get this idea that playing against unknowns gives licence to imagine whatever we want to imagine. Ok you can do that but you don't get to call it range work, call it wishing.

Against unknowns you revert to population tendencies or GTO approximations until you have reason to believe otherwise, so you take the same action as you would default to against the known pool.


Can you specifically give me your range for V1 & V2?


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Old 02-16-2019, 01:44 PM   #8
jpgiro
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Re: Can we call off 60 bbs with just 10's?

This is almost always a fold as played. V1's limp/jam range should be pretty polar (i.e., it's going to primarily be nut hands with occasional random middle pairs and big Ax), but V2's range vs. that range should be very, very tight. I don't think villain 2 ever calls off with TT or AQ here and those are the types of hands you need in his range to make this call even marginally profitable.

Btw, I think flatting vs. randoms with TT is probably better than 3-betting, but I don't think 3-betting is bad either. Probably close either way.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:36 AM   #9
TiltyFish88
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Re: Can we call off 60 bbs with just 10's?

First please don't listen to the 3b sizings here, not sure where they're getting their sizings from but wow. Good rule of thumb under 100bb oop 3b 3.5x then add 1 blind per additional player. In this case Initial raise is 800 so 800x 3.5 - 2800 + 3 additional players (300 blind x3 - 900) - sizing of 3700 is plenty. Problem w/ live players is their sizings are horrible which tends to bloat pots unnecessarily creating more difficult decisions later....sorry my quick rant. As played should be a snap fold. You're assuming these are recs which should let you know their shove range, in general not always, is stronger pre this deep. Even if they're overplaying JJ/QQ, AQ your hand has poor equity in this spot. Rule of thumb w/ recs who limp jam utg is usually AA/KK and AK also (again not always but generally speaking). Good squeeze spot but easy fold imo.

You also always want to think about realizing your equity and the best way to do so. In this spot do you think you'll realize your equity better multiway oop or hu/3 handed oop? 3bet squeezing pre allows you to realize equity better w/ 10s here in long run. Flat hands that play better multiway such as 910s, 89s etc.
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