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Call off or fold? WSOPC $400

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04-11-2019 , 03:34 PM

crzymke85

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 48

1 day $400 WSOPC double stack event, 62 remain 45 pay.

Blinds 4K/8k 1k ante 8 handed

V1 $80k (passive player not getting ool) in HJ
V2 $260k (very good circuit pro) on button
Hero $165k in SB

Preflop action folds to V1 who open shoves, V2 ISO jams, Hero wakes up with AQdd in small blind.

Easy call heads up against HJ but not so sure 3 way?

Call it off or lay it down?

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Last edited by crzymke85; 04-11-2019 at 03:49 PM.

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04-11-2019 , 04:47 PM

fro_dude

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 257

A good pro is going to understand that a 10 BB stack in late position is going to be shoving fairly wide. Hence his iso-range will also be wide.

This is a snap-shove.

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04-11-2019 , 05:18 PM

BCaliskan

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 84

Snap shove for me, agreed fro_dude.

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04-11-2019 , 09:32 PM

PhatPots

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,933

Snap shove, I concur

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04-11-2019 , 11:03 PM

jpgiro

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 1,429

Yeah, even if we think (and V2 also thinks) the initial HJ shove is tighter than normal, it's really hard to come up with a scenario where we can do anything but call off.

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04-12-2019 , 04:49 AM

BiggAli

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 198

Indeed, I'm shocked but Icmizer says we should call 66+ AJ+

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04-12-2019 , 09:00 AM

crzymke85

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 48

I agree we have to call off here but may argue against the snap shove. Purely on a range base of the action ahead of us, the equity I think is good enough to snap. However if we put either on a pocket pair and figure the other has an A or Q we’re drawing to 5 outs which I think makes it border line but still probably a call. The later is the line I took and made the nit fold.

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04-15-2019 , 02:37 PM

Beachman42

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,365

Another aspect - you don't have to beat both. If you lose to V1 but beat V2 you come out slightly ahead. I definitely think you are ahead of V2's range. If you do scoop, you have 400K+ and are in good shape to make a deep run. I gamble here.

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04-16-2019 , 02:32 PM

sabloid

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 490

Seems like Hero is getting 38% pot odds. What ranges do you guys put villains on to make this a call?

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04-16-2019 , 02:48 PM

#10

FishtermerService

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 269

I agree with everyone that this is a shove; I must ask however: At what point is this not a shove? Ie; how many people away from money does this not work due to ICM.

Also....did I use semi colon and colon correctly

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04-16-2019 , 11:16 PM

#11

EggsMcBluffin

MTTPIOExpert

Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 1,457

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishtermerService

I agree with everyone that this is a shove; however, I must ask: At what point is this not a shove? Ie, how many people away from money does this not work due to ICM.

Also....did I use semi colon and colon correctly

Fixed. Also, haha you said colon.

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04-17-2019 , 01:37 AM

#12

Checkov

adept

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 751

why are folks saying shove, when they both shove, and hero's is mid stack?

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04-17-2019 , 12:03 PM

#13

jpgiro

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 1,429

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabloid

Seems like Hero is getting 38% pot odds. What ranges do you guys put villains on to make this a call?

Probably something like 55+, A8s+, ATo+, KTs+. In which case AQs is a fairly straightforward call even with modest ICM implications.

I think my calling range would be something like 88+, AJs+, AQo+ and that might be too tight.

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04-17-2019 , 10:19 PM

#14

wowsooooted

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 5,077

call AQ and fold AJ

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04-24-2019 , 08:01 AM

#15

ImMaRveLz

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 21

im guessing were in cherokee, anyway it really depends on if you need to make the money or not, if you fold you can easily make the money. If you have a good bankroll. its a call all day. Cutoff shoving pretty wide i think and the circuit pro is ISO with low pairs and only AK hes usually going to flat with nutted hands to induce you or the bb to call.

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04-24-2019 , 02:20 PM

#16

Kurn, son of Mogh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,229

Seems like a pretty trivial call to me, especially if V2 has reason to think OP has been folding too much to pressure.

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04-25-2019 , 01:50 PM

#17

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,595

20 Bbs and no legit icm concerns, my decision could be tilted either way by my assessment of the button's play. Not enough info in your op to decide but I would not lose sleep with either decision.

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04-25-2019 , 03:10 PM

#18

Kurn, son of Mogh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,229

One more thing: A second point here is that Hero is +EV vs V2's iso-shove. he can lose the main and still win the side pot.

But that's probably academic, since no matter how tight V1 has been, AQs is not -EV vs that range with the blinds and antes in the pot

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