Just curious on some strats, are we raising all our value here? What kind of hands are we limp calling vs the 3x raises and what hands are we limp stabbing?

Anyone have a basic guide or what there strat is?

Also what's our weakest hand that you would GII with?

Curious to hear other thoughts on this as well, as I'm tinkering quite a bit.

As with everything, this is villain-dependent, but at these stack sizes, against a good player, I'm generally raising my strongest hands (22+, Ax, broadways, medium suited connectors) that I feel good about 4betting or flatting a 3bet with as well as a good amount of raggier hands as bluffs (53s, K2o) that I'm more than comfortable folding to a 3bet.

I'm limp/calling med-strength hands like 86s or K2s that can flop well and call a raise but can't stand up to a 3bet if I were to raise them.

Against a 3bet, I'm 4bet jamming any PP, AT+, offsuit Aces, and offsuit broadways, basically cards that have enough strength to 4bet jam as either a bluff or for value, but don't realize their equity well post-flop.

Flatting my medium suited connectors, suited broadways and suited Aces that realize their equity fairly well postflop.

I've generally been doing 100% SB limp strategies where I have limp-folds, limp-calls and limp-raises. Generally limp-folds are the absolute trash, limp-calls are most of my range that I think is playable post, and limp-raises are going to be polarized hands to hands at the bottom of my limp-call range and hands where I'm ok calling and/or 4-bet/gii depending on stacks.

I'm not sure this is the best strategy, to be honest, because I always struggle with getting the distribution of these segments right.

Curious why you take this approach vs. open-raising. I used to just open-raise or fold everything, but I've started to limp more of my medium strength hands that can call a 2bet but not a 3bet.

I feel like we miss out on so much value by limping our premium hands. And I love being able to have some fold equity with hands like 53s or K2o that aren't great to limp/call.

I really like your strat but the only difference I like to limp some of my ax that I feel comfortable to GII with because BvB raise vs limp seems to have gone way up. I don't want to be capped on my range vs a good reg. So I want to include some of my stronger holdings as well.

Medium strength opponents that will make more mistakes I think playing limp/call/raise is the right way to go.

Against most players, I'm okay with having a capped limping range, knowing that I will be at a disadvantage on certain board textures, but I make up for it by having a stronger opening range and being able to open some weaker hands and get some fold equity with hands that aren't quite strong enough to limp/call.

Against players who really turn up the aggression raising from the BB, I'll start limping more strong hands, but I actually don't run into too many players like that.

I gotcha, I like it. Just feels like I'm getting raised BvB after I limp more often than I should as a whole. I would love to see some different ideas though I feel like this part of my game is something I'm always messing with.

Well I don't limp very much. Pretty much only hands that I think can comfortably call a 2bet but aren't good enough to open and call a 3bet. Mostly suited hands like K2s or 86s. I'm opening or folding most of my range.

A few reasons, but the biggest one is that I've found that it's a better way to protect my entire range. I think when I have a strategy that has some raises and limps, I end up feeling like I have to put some premiums in my limp range anyway.

Are you not including any premiums in your limping range? Seems like opponents could hammer you in several ways. If you're generally folding or opening...and you're not limp-folding, then opponents can size up their value raises, or play their bluff raises in position, knowing exactly what board textures you're vulnerable against.

I agree though poloplaya1414v that limping your entire range is giving up a lot of equity, especially by allowing opponents to see flops in position with every hand in their pre-flop folding range.

tbh I don't really have an approach but gathering as much information about the player on your immediate left should be priority A when sitting down at any table, and you should probably adjust your SB play against them based on their tendencies rather than acting with an "absolute" strategy.

Well my limping range is still fairly wide such that my board coverage is pretty decent. And I just open fold or raise the absolute bottom of my range so it's not that weak of a range. And keep in mind that villain still has any 2 random cards, so I'm not at a huge raise disadvantage overall. There are certain boards where my range will be capped, and that sucks, but at these stack sizes I'm willing to make that tradeoff.

And yeah I definitely change it up based on reads and what not, but this is my default strategy.

Forgot to ask, are you 2.5x everything?

Also are you 4 bet shoving Ax? Pairs obv.

2.5xing everything yes.

I'm raise/calling most of my suited Ax except for AT+. 4bet jamming most of my offsuit Ax, but not all of it since that'd be a bit too much. Making calls on whether to jam or fold with those hands based on villain history and game flow.

I think this is a good way to get eliminated unnecessarily.

And I think it's a good way to generate a ton of fold equity knowing that if my opponent is 3betting super wide, there's no way he can call with a range that makes my shove unprofitable.

But hey, different strokes, amirite? Please keep on folding and waiting for a better spot while I chip up.

Ok if they 3 bet very wide and fold a lot to 4 bets, of course many hands that I would fold to a 3 bet as default become 4 bet shoves. Any pair? I'm not sure about that; it's dependent on their folding frequency to the 4 bet.

I didn't realize that the bold stipulations had been set.

Because of antes

Standard stuff here. You have the right idea jp

Obviously player dependent by I find that this is closest to how most regs play in these spots. 88+ are pretty standard value shoves, and 22-55 make great bluffs. 66-77 are the only hands I’ll occasionally want to raise/call or limp pre.

Ok that makes sense if that's your read. I haven't had that experience with people 3 betting and then folding at high frequency facing a 4 bet for 30 big blinds, usually getting around 2:1. With 50 big blinds, now the price has changed to 1.5:1 for my opponent to call the shove; I see many more folds here so I include more drawing and blocking hands in my 4 bet shove range when 50bb deep, but still leaving out the small pairs.

Yeah, 30 BBs vs. 50 BBs are different dynamics. 30 BBs, I expect to see fewer 3bet/folds, so I'll tighten my 4bet range.

What are the 4bet bluffs you're using? Small pairs don't block as well as, say, KJo or A2o, but they have a lot more equity.

My order of preference of 4 bet bluffs 50bb deep looks something like this:

A5s, A4s, KQs, A5o, // A3s, A2s, KJs, QJs.

The // is where I draw the line as default and adjust from there based on the 3 bet range that I'm facing and the big blind's fold to 4 bet frequency.