I took a somewhat unusual line on this hand from the Monster Stack. Was it terrible?

At 1-2 early in day 2, I open A4o in SB to 7K. Effective stacks are 130K. BB defends. No real reads yet, but he is a youngish Euro.

Flop is 765r none of my suit. I check and call 7200.

Turn is A, completing rainbow. I check and call 17200. Pot is now 65,800

River is a 4. I bet 20,000.

Thoughts?

riv lead is awful, rest is std

seems fine until you lead

Can you explain why you did that and what you think villian thinks of your image. Have you been trying to steal in most BvBs or folding, completing, or is this first one? Either way, what is your general image? Effective stacks also not very helpful, if you both have about the same amount or one has a massive chip advantage then that also dramatically changes the dynamic.

My thoughts are that villain can't possibly put you on any sort of hand range other than total garbage but even then, you could still be doing this with 28o sometimes. However, your range does skew higher to paint cards and his lower.

So that 765r flop, that's a horrible flop for your range vs his own. You check, he reads that and likely bets his advantage.

On turn, that ace probably scares him a bit, but he still likely has a strong draw and you don't always have an ace here.

On river, that card helps out his range significantly more than it helps your own. You may have improved, but now he just needs one card for a straight.

The size of the bet you put in is extremely small, likely much smaller than what he'd but in if he were to barrel here with a single pair or as a bluff. So this isn't even really much insurance vs him checking back. It increases the pot a little, but far less than what it would be if you let him bet. Even if you have the nuts there, I don't like that bet sizing because you should be betting more.

So now if he has air he has two options. Fold or jam. You can't call a jam here.

Then there's him having something like K7 or a lesser two pair. Here he's calling but for a smaller amount than he'd have bet where you'd have called.

Then there's his value range, where he's jamming. He would be doing this anyway, but now you've given him 20k for free before he does it. You may now even goad yourself into calling and go busto.

Just very little about that river lead helps you. He gets out cheap where you beat him and it's just a chip dump when he is ahead.

Unless you're prepared to call a jam there, I don't see how that lead makes any sense at all.

Rick: Thanks for the detailed response. This is very early on day 2. We don't have much in the way image, other than I am a middle aged white guy, and he is a young Euro.

We are essentially tied in chips. I think he had me covered by 10K or so.

I intentionally sized small as a blocking bet, trying to get value from lesser 2 pair. I think he has all 76,75,65, and possibly all 74,64,54, at the very least the suited versions of those 2 pair.

I was fully intending to fold to a jam.

I don't agree he is betting 2 pair for value on this runout. I think he just checks behind. I could be wrong there, of course, that is sort of the crux of the issue. Can I get value from worse that wouldn't bet? You say no, and you could be right. In game I thought I would get called by worse.

My question for you is do you call a large river bet, something like 60K? I felt fairly confident that a large bet was coming, and that this bet effectively priced the river much cheaper for me, and I was confidently folding to a jam...

FWIW, PIO says I can check/call a large river bet, but that is a very high variance play here.

I'd be interested to see your inputs...

I would just complete pre (but opening is fine too.) Cbet flop imo...hand is not strong enuf to c/c. If u Cbet flop check turn and river.

I had Villain defending fairly wide, with a not particularly aggressive 3 bet range. I am new to PIO, and did not save my ranges here, but BvB will become one of my 'saved ranges' once I figure out what I think is a good one.

Very curious why you think our hand plays better as a bet. This flop strongly favors his defend range, and we are out of position on a very dynamic board. Those things suggest checking the flop. We have plenty of equity to call a flop bet. My hand might be ahead with just Ace high, and I do have a straight draw as well. Admittedly, an 8 isn't that great for us, but a 3 or an ace are pretty good.

very interested in your not strong enough to c/c flop

i'm with you that he should be leading if he's going to raise pre instead of completing, but A high with a gutshot is probably best hand at that moment a fair chunk of time and I see the bb betting that board texture quite often even if he has air.

Even if you cb 25% pot you only need him to fold 20% of the time to breakeven so you can get called 80% of the time and not sweat it. Id sooner do this before handing him the initiative ip. Taking advantage of inelastic folding ranges is a thing

I'd be waiting for him to raise me after my C-bet.. I'll re-raise him all in... (I'd C-bet around 10K ) … If he don't have a set it will be very difficult for him to continue… If he has it, I have some outs...

Well, Villain has all 16 combos of 89, probably has 3 combos of 84s and might have some 34 as well, which leave you drawing dead to a chop. He also has 27 combos of 2 pair that will call you as well.

As played, are those of you who don't donk the river calling a PSB?

pretty much impossible to answer unless we know what you would do with better 2p/sets/straights up to the river. id probably have to call since i dont get there with enough sets and straights like that though to fold too many if any Ax 2p combo.

Well, that is in the case he raises… We'll make him fold all his air and his 7x (included in his raising range) … Possibly he will only call … and maybe we can second barrel OTT … I think maybe he can even fold to the C-bet

Sizing is proly too big, better to pick a sizes that serves your range best overall

Pre is basically a pure limp.

AP so much of his range is supposed to have an 8 by the time we reach the river that we should just be pure checking.

In practice it's such a hard spot for V to find a bluff--like does he ever arrive at river with just straight air like T2s-Q2s AND does he follow through with a triple? If not, then your hand is a really ****ty bluffcatcher and an easy exploitative x/f. e only needs to be underbluffing by a very thin margin for your hand to make for a -cEV hero call.

C/C or C/F river depending on reads. Definitely not leading river. Was it a bit of an impulsive move upon hitting two pair or did you think it through?

I don't mean to troll, genuinely curious--how could a rainbow flop have none of your suit when you have an offsuit hand?

I 'knew' a big river bet was coming and did not know what to do about it. I had a hand that had some showdown value, I think Villain has a lot of 2P that I beat that will check back on the river, and I thought Villain would play straightforwardly versus my sizing.

Whether any of the above is a good idea is debatable. Maybe none of it is. It does seem like the lower variance way to play the hand; check calling will be much more expensive when wrong. Check folding as well.

I think saying c/c or c/f on the river 'depending on reads' is a bit of a cop out. It is extremely early in the day, the only read we have is demographic.

What are you going to do in this situation?

Without reads I’m likely folding

I’m assuming he means os with the ace

I'd size down your open to 6k (3x) if opening but prefer limp calling here - hand has poor play ability.

Flop/turn is good.

River prefer x/call - want to give him room to bluff and value worse. By betting we're putting ourselves in a tough spot when raised and tough for us to get value here by leading as well.