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Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch

09-17-2017 , 08:05 AM
    Poker Stars, $40 Buy-in (35/70 blinds, 11 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: 4,192 (59.9 bb)
    BB: 4,296 (61.4 bb)
    UTG+1: 5,119 (73.1 bb)
    UTG+2: 3,874 (55.3 bb)
    Hero (MP1): 7,999 (114.3 bb)
    MP2: 5,619 (80.3 bb)
    MP3: 2,562 (36.6 bb)
    CO: 4,738 (67.7 bb)
    BTN: 16,811 (240.2 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q A
    2 folds, Hero raises to 210, 2 folds, CO calls 210, 2 folds, BB calls 140

    Flop: (764) 5 4 A (3 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets 512, CO calls 512, BB folds

    Turn: (1,788) J (2 players)
    Hero bets 777, CO calls 777

    River: (3,342) T (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets 3,228 and is all-in, Hero calls 3,228




    V's stats were pretty TAG. Saturday edition of bounty builder 44, I think he had starting bounty over his head, so probably $15 worth 7.5k chips.
    I block KQ (not KQdd tho and he probably doesn't call flop with any other KQ than KQdd or KQhh), he should often raise flop or turn with sets or 2p. His shove looks strong though + he doesn't have that many missed flushdraws - KQ is nuts, KJ prob won't bluff here that often. If I'm doing the math correctly then I need to be better 19% of time here.

    Now I definitely lean towards folding despite good ods due to small number of possible bluffing combos. Thoughts?
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-17-2017 , 09:43 AM
    i dislike sizings a lot and id strongly consider checking turn esp against a tighter opponent. river seems like a pretty easy x/f, vil has to turn a lot of JdXd/TdXd into bluffs to make this a call. also disagree that vil should be raising flop or turn with 2p+. how do you come up with 19% when you get almost exactly 2:1 otr?
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-17-2017 , 10:37 AM
    thanks for your opinion,
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by daviid
    how do you come up with 19% when you get almost exactly 2:1 otr?
    if we assume that 5k chips is worth $10 (this was a Saturday edition of bb44 so $10+$30+$4) then if we win his bounty worth $15 we can assume it's worth additional 7.5k chips
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-17-2017 , 09:53 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marecki
    if we assume that 5k chips is worth $10 (this was a Saturday edition of bb44 so $10+$30+$4) then if we win his bounty worth $15 we can assume it's worth additional 7.5k chips
    Ehhhh.....
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-17-2017 , 09:54 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marecki
    if we assume that 5k chips is worth $10 (this was a Saturday edition of bb44 so $10+$30+$4) then if we win his bounty worth $15 we can assume it's worth additional 7.5k chips
    Yeah so starting stack is 5000 chips, meaning 5000 chips are worth 44$. Your 15$ bounty is worth about 1700 chips, if you want to convert them that way.

    I prefer smaller pre, on the flop, and would check turn a lot. You're just putting in too much money with 1 pair by betting there. If he checks back you can go for some value on the river. Certainly don't bet a size where the size is representative of the strength of your hand. River seems like a fairly straightforward fold, although you sized turn such that he can still have all the bricked flushdraws/76.
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-18-2017 , 06:17 AM
    smaller flop, dont mind a b/b line but folding river for sure. Expect him to be checking behind and taking his SDV with A/J/Tx often and seeing its a pretty bad board texture to bluff, think his river jam would be for value most of the time.
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-20-2017 , 03:53 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Soepgroente
    Yeah so starting stack is 5000 chips, meaning 5000 chips are worth 44$. Your 15$ bounty is worth about 1700 chips, if you want to convert them that way.
    Well, I'm pretty sure that you're wrong and most pros count it like it was a $10 tourney with $15 progressive bounty.

    Not sure why I should check the turn. IMO it's a big loss of value.
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-20-2017 , 04:02 PM
    If you buy in for 44$ and get 5000 chips, how could 15$ possibly be worth 7500 chips?

    You view villain as TAG. You 3x'd pre, you bet big on a 3way ace high flop and now fire again on the turn. He might call ATs, he might fold it pre to the 3x and he's certainly folding A9o or worse preflop. That jack is a really really bad card for you, AJ is the main hand you were trying to milk for 2+ streets and it now got there. Yes, he can have a few diamond draw combo's but those have a lot of equity and might bluff themselves if you check. What do you do if you get shoved on OTT? I'm not necessarily saying a turnbet is wrong but there are a lot of arguments against it.

    Last edited by Soepgroente; 09-20-2017 at 04:36 PM.
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-20-2017 , 04:58 PM
    3x pre is fine since blinds are so small, once we get a little deeper we can size down. Flop bet is probably a touch big but really the least of our worries here. Lean strongly towards checking turn for pot control as there aren't that many hands we're getting three streets of value from.
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-20-2017 , 05:27 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Soepgroente
    If you buy in for 44$ and get 5000 chips, how could 15$ possibly be worth 7500 chips?

    You view villain as TAG. You 3x'd pre, you bet big on a 3way ace high flop and now fire again on the turn. He might call ATs, he might fold it pre to the 3x and he's certainly folding A9o or worse preflop. That jack is a really really bad card for you, AJ is the main hand you were trying to milk for 2+ streets and it now got there. Yes, he can have a few diamond draw combo's but those have a lot of equity and might bluff themselves if you check. What do you do if you get shoved on OTT? I'm not necessarily saying a turnbet is wrong but there are a lot of arguments against it.


    /end thread
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-21-2017 , 07:34 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Soepgroente
    If you buy in for 44$ and get 5000 chips, how could 15$ possibly be worth 7500 chips?


    Every source says it's like that. So if it's 75% bounty instead of 50% then it should be worth 7500.
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-21-2017 , 11:13 AM
    Should we really check turn here because a J comes?so many str8/flush draws to get value from?Just 6 combos of AJ,seems a better check on a raggier baord
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote
    09-21-2017 , 01:06 PM
    A quick word on sizing because yours changes pretty drastically between flop and turn. In general cases, you want to use a smaller size on the flop compared with the flop as a percentage.

    It all comes down to targeting hands in their range and putting them in a tough spot. For example, here you choose a sizing on the flop that means the defending players between them will need to call around the 40% mark. This will be easy for them to do and they have a lot of easy folds with hands like K high etc.

    When you reach the turn, because their range is tighter due to a large flop size, this turn bet doesn't really accomplish much, particularly as a bluff. You're also making it pretty cheap for him to chase a flush as well.

    Generally in poker your turn bet should be bigger than your flop bet as a % of the pot. There are a few examples where I'd say this doesn't apply, but that will get very much off topic.

    On the actual hand as played, x/c on this particular river, with these particular suits looks OK.
    Bounty builder 44 river bluffcatch Quote

          
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