Big $22

PokerStars - 250/500 Ante 60 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 21.84 BB (VPIP: 11.70, PFR: 9.57, 3Bet Preflop: 5.41, Hands: 96)
UTG+1: 27.81 BB (VPIP: 17.58, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 5.41, Hands: 91)
MP: 103.54 BB (VPIP: 72.73, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
MP+1: 44.96 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
MP+2: 91.82 BB (VPIP: 35.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
CO: 29.23 BB (VPIP: 35.56, PFR: 24.44, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 94)
BTN: 25.31 BB (VPIP: 15.91, PFR: 6.82, 3Bet Preflop: 2.38, Hands: 90)
SB: 34.09 BB (VPIP: 25.53, PFR: 4.30, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 95)
Hero (BB): 27.26 BB

9 players post ante of 0 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.58 BB) Hero has Q Q

fold, fold, fold, fold, MP+2 calls 1 BB, CO calls 1 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 4.4 BB, MP+2 calls 3.4 BB, CO calls 3.4 BB

Flop: (14.78 BB, 3 players) 7 K 8
Hero checks, MP+2 checks, CO bets 4.88 BB, Hero calls 4.88 BB, fold

Turn: (24.54 BB, 2 players) A
Hero checks, CO checks

River: (24.54 BB, 2 players) 4

lets start witha check

^^^^^ this.

Tough spot oop. I dont wanna go broke here that's for sure.

I think I got caught in an emotional space where by the river the Q felt like it should be significant and I wanted to engineer a way to leverage that, while deep down knowing that's less of a case at this SPR (i.e. he gets to happily jam worse than a flush for value so that harms its value for bluff-catching)

Your river bet looks like a bluff.

checking flop and calling is awful.

either bet flop fold to re-raise.
or check-raise flop. actually with your stack size you probably don't want to check-raise here.

if he calls your flop bet turn looks bad. although shoving turn is better than shoving river. you still got outs.

as played check/fold turn and river. or shove turn. if he has K hes in a tough spot.

If you're going to suggest opposing lines across multiple streets, I think there would be value in fleshing out with some reasoning.

Ez x otr

Bigger pre like 6-7 BB (limper is obv a whale) cbet flop small, he still calls with worse and go from there.
River just check and hope you win at showdown, what are trying to fold out otr ? Doesn’t make any sense to me.


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I think I prefer to check the river and probably call off to a shove. (But not going to debate against someone who would argue a check/fold either. This is probably close depending on how often villain bluffs river) When you shove, he only calls when you are beat, and he is probably calling off Kx hands. If you check, he may check behind with Kx, but on the other hand, he may bluff off any missed hands he has in his range.

I don't think you are losing much value, because I don't know how many 8x/7x hands he has that call off. So shoving here in essence turns your marginal hand into a bluff, that with the previous action in the hand is not likely to work.

Yeah the bet was made with the intention of getting Kx to fold. I wouldn't wager that vill would fold Ax.

But my point was that with the way you played the hand Kx is supposed to call the river and I'm really not sure if you are getting enough Kx hands to fold. Sure there are some weak tight players out there in the world who will find a fold with Kx on that river, but his stats are extremely loose and if he has Kx, he played the hand in a way to induce a bluff to be able to call off the river.

If I had Kx I would use this line to set up aggressive players to make a stab on the river.

+1. Villain's line is going to have tons of Kx here that he c-bets flop/checks turn for pot control. I don't think you are very often going to get folds here with Kx for a less than pot-sized shove. While you could make some theoretical argument that we need bluff hands in our range and pairs with a spade make sense, this may be a spot we should bluff less.

Otherwise I think it's very close between check/fold or check/call on river. Having the Qs is slightly relevant because while we block the nuts, but there really aren't that many flush draws our opponent has here with the A/K/Q of spades all accounted for. And it's also plausible villain checks back a decent amount of Ax on turn. For that reason I lean towards check/fold river as my default line, but it we think villain bluffs even somewhat more than average I'm ok with a call.

I think its harsh to classify a player who folds Kx as weak tight as its really hard for me to show up with a natural bluff, thats not to say he would fold but give a hand reader credit if he finds one there. I concede he has an array of Ax which this profile cannot be expected to fold to any degree so overall doesn't seem like a super efficient bluff.

Otherwise I'd probably lean towards x/fold.

One quick point on what our lead range could be on the river, for me it might be something like a few spade combos, maybe some stray Acxc that floated the flop, checked the turn and are now trying to get value from worse pairs on the river. That shouldn't be that many combos, so we can stick to using hands like 55 or 66 with a spade (which block spade combos plus 65) as bluffs, because those hands have little chance to win at showdown anyway. (unlike QQ which can sometimes win it goes check/check and v has 8x or 7x)

Sounds good