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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 05-20-2020, 05:02 AM   #1
MrsHopkin
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Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

Hi guys,

I have played a few thousand NL tournaments throughout the years, but this final table hand at Pokerstars Big $22 last night is one of the more special.

Hero is chipleader in the tournament with 2.4 mill chips (80 big blinds) prior to the hand, villain one of the largest elsewhere with about 1,45 mill (48 big blinds). Blinds at 15k/30k. Other stacks at the final table (still 9 players) vary between 15 and 50 big blinds.

Hero has been very active first few hands at the final table, taking down multiple pots without showdown.

Onto the hand: Hero (80bb) raises 88 under-the-gun. Folded to villain (48bb), who calls from the big blind.

Flop: 8QQ

Villian checks, hero bets 3bb, villain calls.

Turn: T.

Villain checks, hero checks.

River: 9.

Villain bets 1.5bb, hero ponders for a little while and calls.

Flame away!
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Old 05-20-2020, 12:49 PM   #2
Smudger2408
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

Guess you lost the hand to Q-9....
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Old 05-20-2020, 01:24 PM   #3
Bubblebust
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

Yeah, I would have lost more chips here.
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Old 05-20-2020, 02:17 PM   #4
persianpunisher
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

Wtf? Why on earth did you check turn? Are you scared of better hands? This hand is very poorly played.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:31 PM   #5
Uoopity321
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

you're pondering a 1.5bb river bet? wtf is going on in this hand
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:53 PM   #6
auralex14
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uoopity321 View Post
you're pondering a 1.5bb river bet? wtf is going on in this hand
It seems like OP decided to create an account and share a poorly played hand in which they lost the minimum because they’re a God or something
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:48 PM   #7
MrsHopkin
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uoopity321 View Post
you're pondering a 1.5bb river bet? wtf is going on in this hand
Pondering a raise there. Folding totally out of the question (obv).
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:51 PM   #8
MrsHopkin
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by persianpunisher View Post
Wtf? Why on earth did you check turn? Are you scared of better hands? This hand is very poorly played.
What’s your future plan for this hand if betting the turn?

FWIW, I think we need something like 60-40 edge in an AI-situation, given ICM issues. Each place at the final table pays about 65% extra.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:53 PM   #9
MrsHopkin
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

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Originally Posted by auralex14 View Post
It seems like OP decided to create an account and share a poorly played hand in which they lost the minimum because they’re a God or something
Haha. Had an account here about 15 years ago, but forgot the login 😅. Hand prompted me to make a posting comeback. I think it’s pretty interesting.
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:14 PM   #10
Bubblebust
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

But let's look at how interesting. BBs range should be capped and have very few, if any, QQs in that position. You severely block Q8, so he has precisely QT that beats you on the turn. On the other hand, he has a ton hands that will pay a moderately priced value bet on the turn: J9, any Q, potentially diamond draws, KJ, AJ, many of which may have called the 3 bb c-bet.

Look, of anyone here, I'm prone to miss value in the name of pot control, but this really looks overboard.

As for what's our plan for betting the turn, I think it's usually to fire another value bet on the river, unless a card (perhaps like the 9) comes off on the river that look like a credible kicker (to go along with the T) that V could have caught with his Q on the river. If one of those cards comes, we can call or check back. (Personally, don't know if I'm ever folding, I'd tank pretty long if V shoved river, and hope I have some kind of read/feel).
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:30 PM   #11
Bubblebust
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

Edit: Need to add we might have to dump if river is Q or T.
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Old 05-21-2020, 04:49 PM   #12
deuceblocker
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

Donk or superuser? Just horrible play. Do you value bet anything but the absolute nuts? You could take this line with AA/KK or something. Did you check if a solver agrees with your line?
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:20 AM   #13
oldsilver
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

in what universe is this hand interesting OP?

if you've nit-lined some V cooler and paid less than your dues don't expect the fine folks of MHSMTT to pat your back

would close this thread but too entertained
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:01 PM   #14
deuceblocker
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

You have played a few thousand tournaments. Do you have a winning record? Playing nitty like this will lose huge amounts in the long run, if you came here for advice.
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Old 05-23-2020, 03:09 AM   #15
wynner88888
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

I thought this was a troll until I read to following posts. What I will say apart from the blatantly obvious missed value in general, is that these river block bets are often a nutted ploy attempt at inducing a raise. V is repping something mediocre and when we bite he shows us the nuts or near nuts
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Old 05-23-2020, 05:51 PM   #16
Abbaddabba
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

don't agree with that read at all unless by "a lot" you mean 1/5 times (and even that would be generous).

tough spot if you raise and get shoved on, but it's not an unreasonable fold in those cases - especially if you choose a size where you clearly don't have Jx for value.
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Old 05-24-2020, 02:05 AM   #17
wynner88888
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Re: Big $22 - strange 88 hand w/flopped boat

Agreed - 'sometimes' would have been the appropriate word to use instead of 'often'
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