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ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove

01-16-2018 , 06:42 AM
Played a really interesting hand with around 100 left in the ACR $265 $1M yesterday. Readless as I got moved to this table just now and this is my first hand at the table. Villain is a Brazilian HSMTT reg.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 4,000/8,000 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 12.62 BB
SB: 50.18 BB
BB: 8.79 BB
UTG: 64.65 BB
UTG+1: 20.67 BB
Hero (MP): 60.39 BB
MP+1: 66.08 BB
MP+2: 84.81 BB
CO: 18.01 BB (VPIP: 23.40, PFR: 20.93, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 47)

9 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has Kh Ac
UTG raises to 2 BB, fold, Hero raises to 6 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 4 BB

Flop : (14.4 BB, 2 players) Jc Ah 8h
UTG checks, Hero bets 5.94 BB, UTG calls 5.94 BB

Turn : (26.28 BB, 2 players) 5h
UTG checks, Hero checks

River : (26.28 BB, 2 players) 2s
UTG checks, Hero bets 18.75 BB, UTG raises to 52.61 BB and is all-in, Hero..... (~30bb behind)

Comments on every street are welcome, Cheers.
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-16-2018 , 04:56 PM
Well he cant have the nuts because of the Kh blocker so we can definitely have the nuts which makes this look a bit bluffy, however, it is a sicko spot. I think I would tend to fold as we don't typically see this type of play with complete air and what air can he have here anyway? Flushes got there, he can have all sets, and 2 pair hands. It's just a bit too marginal for me to call this off. I think every street is played well if you folded river.
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-16-2018 , 06:06 PM
It's either a flush or nothing in this spot, for him to check raise a set or 2 pair would be suicide because you'd have to think he's afraid of you having a flush as well. The best way for him to play a flush is to do exactly what he did, because he probably knows that you will value bet even a top pair type of hand on the river trying to get value. The problem is you having the Kh, he can't have the best flush, which leaves me to believe that it could be a bluff since he shows no fear of being beat, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't raise the river with the 2nd nuts fearing just 1 hand beating him.

Almost everyone is going to say fold, I'm curious to see what people think he might have had. Queen high flush would make 100% sense, but a total bluff would make sense to! It's a hell of a bet by him if he had a flush or nothing, any other hand like a set or 2 pair is just weird and he's obviously got some past history on you that swayed into his decision making process.
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-16-2018 , 11:56 PM
the hand is played well and river is a fold imo, as mentioned its hard for him to have too many air combos in this spot
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-17-2018 , 09:51 PM
dont x turn
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-18-2018 , 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016
dont x turn
it sucks to put us in position to get raised tho and worse may not call a second on a bad turn. By checking through we can potentially pick off some river bluffs or value cuts or bet river ourselves, either way we get x2 streets

Last edited by wowsooooted; 01-18-2018 at 12:59 AM.
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-18-2018 , 01:06 AM
Pre is ok, don't mind occasionally also flatting UTG raises in EP/MP with our entire playable range.

Think we want to go bigger on flop as there is some coordination on this board and at this SPR we should at least consider playing for stacks with TPTK. Don't mind betting turn but if we think villain has decent river-bluffing frequencies don't mind checking to induce either.

On the river it's simple for me - we have the Kh, so we can call. When we have the Kh we block two or three flush combos villain can have here. And because villain opened UTG and flatted a 3-bet in all likelihood they're now really only repping 3-4 flush combos: QJ, JT, T9, maybe QT. I think we can safely discount most other better hands like two pair or sets (other than maybe A2, although that probably folds pre) as those hands certainly don't take villain's line very often.

If this is a good thinking high-level player, they're also going to turn some unusual hands like QQ or TT with a heart into a bluff sometimes, knowing that a.) you're unlikely to have very many flush combos of your own in your range and b.) you're often capped at top pair based on your line and c.) they're almost never going to be good if they call.

Now I don't necessarily mind a fold, but I think in game this is a spot where blockers and our opponents' likely preflop range has some relevance and we shouldn't ignore that.

Last edited by jpgiro; 01-18-2018 at 01:16 AM. Reason: grammar
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-18-2018 , 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowsooooted
it sucks to put us in position to get raised tho and worse may not call a second on a bad turn. By checking through we can potentially pick off some river bluffs or value cuts or bet river ourselves, either way we get x2 streets
Consult pio I’m nearly 100% the ev of Bet is > x ott
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-18-2018 , 02:12 AM
@jpgiro

Someone good can c/jam wider than flushes for value given we are most likely capped what makes our blocker less relevant.
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-18-2018 , 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by user12345
@jpgiro

Someone good can c/jam wider than flushes for value given we are most likely capped what makes our blocker less relevant.
What other value hands take this particular line though, where they check/call flop and then check turn and river. Is that a line JJ, AJ or 88 takes very often? Would 55 float flop, check back turn and river and then c/r jam? 22 may not even call pre. AA that trapped pre might take this line sometimes but we have a relevant blocker to that hand.

If these are plausible lines then yeah, I can see the idea of villain jamming other than flushes.

Last edited by jpgiro; 01-18-2018 at 11:33 AM.
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-18-2018 , 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro
What other value hands take this particular line though, where they check/call flop and then check turn and river. Is that a line JJ, AJ or 88 takes very often? Would 55 float flop, check back turn and river and then c/r jam? 22 may not even call pre. AA that trapped pre might take this line sometimes but we have a relevant blocker to that hand.

If these are plausible lines then yeah, I can see the idea of villain jamming other than flushes.
I was mainly talking about relevance of our blocker.

Generally we aren`t supposed to be very wide pre so he shouldn`t be incentivized to check river w/ lots of value hands which applies to his flushes as well even at higher degree.
Bc when he hold flush he blocks more bluffs (KQ:h!hh) and thin river VBs (hand we hold) than when he hold AJ,A8.
AJ in particular block more SDV (weak Ax, Jx) which makes it even a better hand to C/R river assuming we never check back a flush OTT (which majority of regs do).
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-19-2018 , 03:55 PM
I think you played it well, but have pause about the river. I think if you are going to bet/fold it would have been better to check, especially with the read of him being an HSMTT Brazilian Pro. Moreover, you have the Kh blocker, but he knows that you don't have some random two heart hand, as the 3-bet makes it likely you have an A and the Ah is on the board. From his point of view, you can't have a nut flush at all (unless you have KQhh), but maybe he has the Qh and is playing his own blocker, knowing you can't have KJhh or something weird.

What was his timing on the river ship?

More importantly, I don't know if I would call or fold, but I lean towards call, as a call now can guarantees close to chip lead and running over stacks until FT, but a fold puts you back into the 3b/4b AI ranges and puts you more at the mercy of boards/limits available styles of play. I think I call.

I also think he has set possibillites, as yall's stack sizes are big enough for him to justifiably try and flop sets on you (maybe).
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
01-19-2018 , 04:48 PM
I think this is almost always a call.

I don't see a flush taking a chance of the river checking through again after it went check-check on the turn.

Although more likely than a flush checking both streets, I don't think a set usually check-shoves the river, either. I have to admit it's possible, though, since V can only put you on exactly KQhh unless he thinks you 3b him pre with a smaller heart connector.

So I think you'll occasionally have sets show up here but I think it's more often complete air. I don't think a flush shows up here ever.
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
02-01-2018 , 12:59 AM
Any reason why not checking back the river? Apparently judging at all the turn out of the hand the river bet is too big and accomplish nothing.
ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote
02-01-2018 , 05:22 AM
I know that we need protection (and value) otf, but Vs good HS reg im tempting to x/b flop and go from there (esp with K❤️)
From what are you trying getting value otr, esp with that size ?
As played , his obv capable of turning pair into a bluff, but in the same time go for value with 2p/sets.


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ACR 5 <img M facing river x/shove Quote

      
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