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$60 Merge Deepstack - Final Table

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09-17-2011 , 05:30 PM

NimhOfJoy

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,492

Should I shove this?

Merge - $0+$0.00|<> NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

MP: 22,566.00
MP+1: 17,281.00
CO: 40,728.00
Hero (BTN): 13,779.00
SB: 22,349.00
BB: 28,764.00
UTG: 32,676.00
UTG+1: 37,857.00

MP posts ante 75.00, MP+1 posts ante 75.00, CO posts ante 75.00, Hero posts ante 75.00, SB posts ante 75.00, BB posts ante 75.00, UTG posts ante 75.00, UTG+1 posts ante 75.00, SB posts SB 300.00, BB posts BB 600.00

Pre Flop: (1500.00) Hero has 7h 8h

UTG raises to 1,200.00, UTG+1 calls 1,200.00, MP calls 1,200.00, MP+1 calls 1,200.00, fold, Hero?

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09-17-2011 , 05:59 PM

gregz41

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Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,609

fold online, live this could be interesting.

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09-17-2011 , 08:11 PM

dereds

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

I'd call

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09-18-2011 , 08:45 AM

NimhOfJoy

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,492

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereds

I'd call

Even though we're not closing the action? Also, the guy to my direct left has been fairly active (and somewhat bad), so I didn't think flatting was an option.

If you flat and we see a flop, are you stacking w TP?

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09-18-2011 , 09:02 AM

dereds

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

if we get squeezed from the blinds then fine we can fold but the blinds are more likely to call than raise given the amount of callers and they are a little too deep to ship. Whether I stack off with TP depends on the action the board texture and the players involved.

In any case it's marginal but you have the button

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09-18-2011 , 12:16 PM

Ace Jackoff

adept

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 911

Reads???? Stats????

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09-18-2011 , 02:34 PM

busto23

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Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 2,955

A ship here can't be that bad IMO. Given stacks I would think fold > ship > call in this case. It all depends on the stats of the villains.

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09-19-2011 , 01:12 PM

NimhOfJoy

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,492

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace Jackoff

Reads???? Stats????

Well, I mentioned the guy to my direct left was fairly active (actually doubled me up earlier in the tourney - near the bubble I think - AK v K6 after he called BvB and shoved over my bet on KJ9ss). At least 2 of the callers are fairly fishy, one of whom doubled up when he called a nits 12bb shove w KJs and binked his J v AK midway through.

I was surprised in general how soft this FT was (actually, Merge tournies seem pretty soft in general).

I don't know if that's helpful, although one guy's willingness to call off light might make it more of a fold?

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09-19-2011 , 01:15 PM

ssnyc

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Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 38,129

seems a pretty good spot to latch on and to see a cheapish flop IP

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09-19-2011 , 02:08 PM

#10

unrealzeal

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Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13,990

kinda like shoving here but I prob just click the call btn

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09-19-2011 , 02:31 PM

#11

busto23

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Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 2,955

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssnyc

seems a pretty good spot to latch on and to see a cheapish flop IP

How is this a cheap flop with 8-high at 20 BBs effective preflop?

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09-19-2011 , 02:41 PM

#12

dereds

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,782

we're getting > 5/1 and we have the button. It's also 23bb's

It's speculative but our stack utility doesn't really diminish if we peel pre and fold flop, we make significant gains to our stack when we do win the pot though given there's already 50% of it in the middle.

I do think if we jam we get called a lot by UTG+1 who has a hand he may not want to get in against the OR at 50bb's but is going to be much happier getting it in against us considering the price he is getting and just how weak the ranges of those in between are.

Last edited by dereds; 09-19-2011 at 03:23 PM.

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09-19-2011 , 03:19 PM

#13

unrealzeal

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Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13,990

problem with flatting tho is we are so short, and if we get squeezed we are priced in to call....i love to call here but I'm pretty sure I don't make a whole lot doing it and maybe lose some...it's hard to make a hand when you can't peel a turn, and the two bb's we drop might diminish our FE for future hands, which we will usually need...we get dangerously close to being a push/fold stack as opposed to a resteal stack

it's pretty close but fold is def acceptable

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09-20-2011 , 01:21 AM

#14

needdiaper$

banned

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 285

Easy shove especially since everyone still worries about Icm on Merge even though their MTT structure is close to being winner take all ..even if you knew for sure the PFR had AK and was going to call it would be break even getting 3:2 so basically it is times you against over pair versus your FE, FE wins for sure
...even against AA you have perfect hand that is only 3: 1 dog, so is almost exactly a question of what you think will happen more get called by over pair, or take it down preflop, like I said, EASY SHOVE

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09-20-2011 , 01:57 AM

#15

khanrava

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I fold, if you jam it's really unlikely you don't get called. You are the shortest but you can still pick much better spots with 23bb.

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09-20-2011 , 02:45 AM

#16

furo

deviation of equilibrium

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 29,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by unrealzeal

problem with flatting tho is we are so short, and if we get squeezed we are priced in to call....

no....

i love to call here but I'm pretty sure I don't make a whole lot doing it and maybe lose some...it's hard to make a hand when you can't peel a turn, and the two bb's we drop might diminish our FE for future hands, which we will usually need...we get dangerously close to being a push/fold stack as opposed to a resteal stack

...dropping from 23 to 21BB does not lose any FE and making +EV calls postflop when we peel flop with a draw is not a bad thing either.

it's pretty close but fold is def acceptable

yea

if OR is wide shoving this is prob good too.

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09-20-2011 , 07:36 AM

#17

NimhOfJoy

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Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,492

Interesting, I didn't actually consider calling an option.

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09-20-2011 , 08:17 AM

#18

Finnera

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,621

I'd flat call.

You have position and quite a nice hand, which is a bit untypical in this type of pot.

Sure, You miss the flop more often than not, or others might hit better, but in the long run, I am quite sure this could pay off. You might also get a free card to draw to a flush or straight on the turn, since you have position or then take it away with a continuation bet if the board looks more or less safe.

Shoving is fine as well, but then it is up to you on how much you want to gamble. With that 20BB's +, I am sure You will find nice spots to pick up chips (with lower variance plays) or double up in the next couple of orbits.

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09-20-2011 , 08:47 AM

#19

Keeper1125

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,913

I think all 3 options are close but probably fold > shove = call.

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