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Old 01-09-2018, 09:38 PM   #1
Lucky.luke
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55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

PokerStars - 17500/35000 Ante 3500 NL - Holdem - 9 players


BB: 30.2 BB (VPIP: 24.46, PFR: 17.78, 3Bet Preflop: 8.47, Hands: 139)
UTG: 25.41 BB (VPIP: 19.09, PFR: 14.55, 3Bet Preflop: 7.32, Hands: 110)
Hero (UTG+1): 38.01 BB
MP: 68.52 BB (VPIP: 23.23, PFR: 19.21, 3Bet Preflop: 15.00, Hands: 155)
MP+1: 61.56 BB (VPIP: 15.85, PFR: 12.35, 3Bet Preflop: 2.94, Hands: 82)
MP+2: 31.34 BB (VPIP: 29.20, PFR: 23.01, 3Bet Preflop: 17.02, Hands: 115)
CO: 31.44 BB (VPIP: 25.71, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 35)
BTN: 5.76 BB (VPIP: 12.76, PFR: 6.41, 3Bet Preflop: 0.92, Hands: 243)
SB: 10.31 BB (VPIP: 20.65, PFR: 14.17, 3Bet Preflop: 5.41, Hands: 248)

9 players post ante of 0 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has 7 7

fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, MP raises to 5.85 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 3.85 BB

Flop: (14.1 BB, 2 players) J 3 3
Hero checks, MP bets 4 BB, Hero calls 4 BB

Turn: (22.1 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, MP checks

River: (22.1 BB, 2 players) T
Hero bets 8.5 BB, MP raises to 50 BB, Hero?



This villain is pretty decent Regular. Didnt got too many reads despite he wasnt overly aggressive but probably capable of some moves. 155 hands 15 3bet (but only from LP, SB and BB)

I played the one or two orbits pretty tide as i should. But this is a clear open. Once we get 3bet which Range we up against? I assumed he will do it quite aggressive. So some suited wheel aces, AJo + KQo is possible, TT+,AK+. So we got 38 BB which shouldnt be a peel for a set bec we are under 40 bb. But our future game can profit massive from hitting a set as well as we could be ahead which can lead to dicey situations which isnt preferable in this spot. We got 1 to 10.4 with dead money. So a justifyable call imo.

-otf V cbet
Vs that can we justify the peel? the cbet says i give u a pretty nice price so its little akward. But at that time i thought i can be ahead which can be a illusion bec of the sizing right? he literllay gives a free card. So he can do this with AA or KK, A3s, JJ, may QQ, i think his flush draws will size it up but it can be AKdd but rather unlikely he can check this Hand also. There is also a possibility that we are ahead i thought at that time but does he cbet 2 bb into 14 bb with Air? i dont think so in hint side.

-ott:
we could lead but its just fold out his bluffs so its no good option and if we behind hasta la vista.

-otr:
so we wanna get value from Overpairs but idk if he got ever some as he checked back the turn he could held AJo so is this even a cbet?
i maneuverd myself in quit a trickey spot there no?(bearbeitet)
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:59 PM   #2
hitchens97
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

Pre is fold to 3 bet this shallow.

Flop is marginal, but given wide 3 bet range I guess it's OK.

Turn, check is fine.

River is easy call. One we turn boat, we are never folding this shallow
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:42 AM   #3
Lucky.luke
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchens97 View Post
Pre is fold to 3 bet this shallow.

Flop is marginal, but given wide 3 bet range I guess it's OK.

Turn, check is fine.

River is easy call. One we turn boat, we are never folding this shallow
when do you go for floppin set?
the thing is we could be ahead but its marginal but its possible hard to realize equity...
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:55 PM   #4
UntimelyBluff
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

Fold pre, 77 can be a tricky hand to play post flop because a lot of times you'll be guessing if you don't flop a set, even with an over pair you still have to worry about him having a better one. As played this would be almost next to impossible for me to lay down, if he had 10's it's such a sick cooler, if he had JJ he played it damn well. All though if he has not bluffing, what could he possibly have? 103, J3, and 73 all seem pretty hard for him to have here unless he's really splashy, so it's literally JJ, 10's, maybe a 3 that thinks he's raising for value but only will get called by a worse 3. Online this is probably a snap call, live could be a fold but it would require one hell of a read and understanding of your opponents tendencies.
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Old 01-10-2018, 07:00 PM   #5
8swanky1
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

Pre-flop: This is a fold. You have to get through 7 players, 77 doesn't flop particularly well, you're out of position, and we're too shallow to set-mine against most opponents.

Turn: It is fine as played, as your range is capped due to pre-flop/flop action and we allow the villain to continue barreling his bluffs. Alternatively, there is some merit to the stop-and-go play if you're read is that villain has QQ-AA a high percentage of time, since a turn bet from you should induce a shove from villain here.

River: I like your lead here. Villain re-shove is a sick spot, since he knows that you are capped and could easily have TT or JJ.... yet STILL isn't afraid of those hands. This feels like villain has TT or JJ (possibly a weird 33). There are definitely some ICM factors in play as well, since a fold still has you at 28bb with 2 short-stacks likely to bust soon.

I'd probably make a crying call, and "redecorate" my walls with a couple of holes after villain rolls over TT or JJ.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:59 AM   #6
Lucky.luke
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

yeah. so pre is standard open.
peel is pretty marginal.....because u can go for set value if 1 to 11....

i did call river. He did hold JJ.

I did need a little while to come over it esp. i did got 3 ruff days of runnin insanely bad...

but champions stand one more time up. or how its called....
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:01 AM   #7
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

but guys. imagine u hit a set and get like a near double up we can be chip leader and profit from that a lot this makes up for 1 to 10.4 instead of 1 to 11. so the profit which u will turn out of this as a chip leader does make way up for ingnoring a little deficite for the implyed odds for floppin a set. which u will win as a chip leader by far from puttin pressure at the 2nd 3rd or 4 th chip leader...
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:03 AM   #8
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

how about zillion times when u dont hit ? even if u hit, will u stack him unless he has top of his range ? i dont think so. u can argue whatever u want about future equity or possiblites or whatever but it doesnt work like that

it's similar principle as for the that KQo hand. u should fold hands that are so low in your range and dominated AF vs 3betting range esp oop this shallow.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:09 PM   #9
Lucky.luke
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomalice View Post
how about zillion times when u dont hit ? even if u hit, will u stack him unless he has top of his range ? i dont think so. u can argue whatever u want about future equity or possiblites or whatever but it doesnt work like that

it's similar principle as for the that KQo hand. u should fold hands that are so low in your range and dominated AF vs 3betting range esp oop this shallow.
ok so which implyed odds are u accepting to go for set value?
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:23 AM   #10
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

So much bad advice itt
Peel is super standard folding would just be bad/weak etc pot odds so many unpaired ak aq random stuff 77 folding for this price is just silly
Flop standard vs small cbet
River standard
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:25 AM   #11
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomalice View Post
how about zillion times when u dont hit ? even if u hit, will u stack him unless he has top of his range ? i dont think so. u can argue whatever u want about future equity or possiblites or whatever but it doesnt work like that

it's similar principle as for the that KQo hand. u should fold hands that are so low in your range and dominated AF vs 3betting range esp oop this shallow.
Mainly this post titling how much conviction but so wrong
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:00 AM   #12
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

lol posting indeed. u re saying like it's some superprofitable defend and im clueless while in fact it can be borderline call or fold or whatever. vs specific info about villain and numbers provided by hud and btn and sb having less than 10 bigs it just seems bad.

Spoiler:
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:29 AM   #13
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

u know lolposting, final table, icm ? good regs barreling a lot bcs they can pressure which leads to us not realising our equity and having uber difficult decisions on any board whatsover with hand that might be dominated most of the time


fml im clueless aight

Last edited by nomalice; 01-12-2018 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:58 PM   #14
Lucky.luke
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

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Originally Posted by Lucky.luke View Post
ok so which implyed odds are u accepting to go for set value?
you know what nomalice? i post hands not only here, and its cool (90% of the time) that people are giving their opinin to that.

you just have to repect that i do a lot of work to post theese hands not just like a noob. I do rly hard thinkin and proper design so audience can read it proper. And i dont ask like what would u do here? or some kinda nonsense lazy stuff.

but what is pitty when questions arent answered that are asked.
as well as points arent considered .... or overexagerrating (zillion times) its rather unprofessional.


but despite that thank you for your insights and time

Last edited by Lucky.luke; 01-12-2018 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:04 PM   #15
Lucky.luke
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomalice View Post
u know lolposting, final table, icm ? good regs barreling a lot bcs they can pressure which leads to us not realising our equity and having uber difficult decisions on any board whatsover with hand that might be dominated most of the time


fml im clueless aight
there u say a lot of pressure and barrels we will face

but on the other hand u claim we wont get much value if we hit one out of zillion times....?

so i ask you again which implyed odds are u willing to peel?

if the stacks a little more equal u would go for that peel. your right 77 is bottom of open range and we can fold it... despite 77 is a diffrent bottom of range than ATo 38bb´s

Last edited by Lucky.luke; 01-12-2018 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:36 PM   #16
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

im not saying that we will or will not face anything, from the beggining i had tough time seeing how is this defend super standard bcs vs some opponents it might be slightly good while vs others it isnt and vs described villain peeling just seemed bad to me and still do.

these are the scenarios :
1. he is tight player who 3bets tight range = peeling is bad
2. he is aggro and is barreling a lot if 3b = peeling is bad

i dont think u re a total noob nor i have anything against you, just both KQ and this hand seems bad when i look at my own strategy and i might be way off with my thinking as i find playing vs 3bets oop one of the weakest sides of my game so i really like to discuss spots like this, hear others and offer my own opinion. i dont come to strat forum to ****talk anyhow.

i said why i dont like something and both of you got triggered about it and im not sure how to react on that
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:14 PM   #17
Lucky.luke
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomalice View Post
im not saying that we will or will not face anything, from the beggining i had tough time seeing how is this defend super standard bcs vs some opponents it might be slightly good while vs others it isnt and vs described villain peeling just seemed bad to me and still do.

these are the scenarios :
1. he is tight player who 3bets tight range = peeling is bad
2. he is aggro and is barreling a lot if 3b = peeling is bad

i dont think u re a total noob nor i have anything against you, just both KQ and this hand seems bad when i look at my own strategy and i might be way off with my thinking as i find playing vs 3bets oop one of the weakest sides of my game so i really like to discuss spots like this, hear others and offer my own opinion. i dont come to strat forum to ****talk anyhow.

i said why i dont like something and both of you got triggered about it and im not sure how to react on that
i just wrote the open is standard not the defend buddy...
here is the equity realization.
[IMG] http://imgur.com/a/yH66j[/IMG]

the pod odds are dictates : 37.5 % needed
and i used in power equilab as needed equity at least 38.5....

but it dont calculates implyed odds right? (which we apperently haven´t)

so i ur right we havent the equity realization which is aquired....
but when are u peelin buddy tell me? 1 to 14?

no reaction is needed...just a ´teacher´or a discussion need to be rational if someone goes emotional it triggers easly others....i always try to be in a supportive way but everyone got his flaws and patience isnt the easyest thing on the world i know that because i mostly pretty unpatient which is in some way in all of our manner...
(i am also in the RYE mtt masterclass where one coach stated the KQo peel is ok or is ok as played, the KQo isnt the bottom of our open range so a peel isnt by far atrocious i belive, but i am always on the edge too -EV plays for sure... that honest i can be with myself as i should ....) cheers

Last edited by Lucky.luke; 01-12-2018 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:33 PM   #18
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

i believe that calc is right.

im not sure about correct odds, but i setmine ip with 1-10 and oop 1-18 or smt like that. very dependent vs who im playing,vs weaker passive guys idc really and oop 1-10 is pbb fine but vs regs smt in range 1-20 is mathematicly correct.

if i feel it i can peel and 1-3 idc

for KQ hand im almost 100% postiive that 4b shove has a lot bigger ev than flatting since ppl pretty much overbluff btn vs co 33bigs 3bets
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:46 PM   #19
Lucky.luke
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomalice View Post

if i feel it i can peel and 1-3 idc

for KQ hand im almost 100% postiive that 4b shove has a lot bigger ev than flatting since ppl pretty much overbluff btn vs co 33bigs 3bets
if u feel it u can peel 1 to 3 i think u meant.

the KQ hand i will put in HRC. (y)
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:46 PM   #20
Lucky.luke
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

damn messed up odds calculation
its 3.85 bb / 14.15 bb = 27.3 %
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:37 PM   #21
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

It’s a call because math pot odds and B.B./100 compared to folding 77 performs better than the immediate loss you take when you fold you will lose often you but you lose less when you peel and avoid playing bad post
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:16 PM   #22
8swanky1
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

Bottom line: If you open fold 77 in this spot, you're still alive in the tournament & a majority of the time you'll ladder up numerous places while still giving yourself a chance to win.

This hand was an ICM disaster. You were 3rd in chips & didn't need to open a marginal hand in early position.

Surely, you could have found more productive ways to utilize a 38bb stack & simply picked a better spot.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:27 AM   #23
nomalice
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
It’s a call because math pot odds and B.B./100 compared to folding 77 performs better than the immediate loss you take when you fold you will lose often you but you lose less when you peel and avoid playing bad post
when u look 77 hand in the vacuum sure that is true but

Spoiler:


u know, chip value in $$ and stuff ?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:05 AM   #24
Lucky.luke
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

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Originally Posted by 8swanky1 View Post
Bottom line: If you open fold 77 in this spot, you're still alive in the tournament & a majority of the time you'll ladder up numerous places while still giving yourself a chance to win.

This hand was an ICM disaster. You were 3rd in chips & didn't need to open a marginal hand in early position.

Surely, you could have found more productive ways to utilize a 38bb stack & simply picked a better spot.
open is standard dude. ok its bottom of RFI utg+1

so your opinion isnt accurate in my eyes bec the question we talk about is the peel!?

but we dont need to defend a marginal hand vs 3bet if u meant that i agree!
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:34 PM   #25
8swanky1
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Re: 55$ Daily Marathon. FT.

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Originally Posted by Lucky.luke View Post
open is standard dude. ok its bottom of RFI utg+1

so your opinion isnt accurate in my eyes bec the question we talk about is the peel!?

but we dont need to defend a marginal hand vs 3bet if u meant that i agree!
I understand what you're saying, but the main mistake made in this hand was choosing to open it preflop. Once you open, you're forced to continue due to pot odds & the fact that villain could have 22+, Ax, & all broadway combos in his range. If you take a b/f line pre-flop against anything other than a shove...these guys will punish your opening range & you'll be forced to tighten it.

The only other REAL decision was to call or fold the river.

My main point is that you created a bad situation for yourself THROUGHOUT the hand by opening the absolute bottom of your range in terrible position.
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