We are 11/15 of 48 entries in a $50 Six max, - pays top six.
Level 7 - Ante 30 125/250

Hero (HJ)~ 6700
Villain (BTN)~7500

The Villain in this hand is someone we have a lot of history with. we play together a lot in SNG's, and Smaller field MTT's from $30-$250 dollar buy ins. He's an aggressive player, who in my view plays Lag 9 handed, but maybe a bit more TAG six handed. He's a good hand reader, and also capable of getting out of line. He squeezes a lot. In a nutshell, while he may not be a huge winner, he has a clue, and is dangerous if not tough to play against. plays a lot of 6max

Hero (HJ): A5
Opens to 562, Villain (BTN) 2K, folds, to hero....hero 4 bet shove all in ~6700.

thoughts - instafold?, fold 50/rip it 50? anyone for flatting?

Thanks

Not a fan of flatting and seeing a flop with SPR of 1 with this sort of hand. I'd go the fold/shove 50-50. A lot depends on how often Villain is 3 betting light. If especially aggressive just shove 100%

Easy fold vs the 3bet. Villain is pot commited so you are most likely dominated if you get it in. I don't like flatting either because you are OOP with a SPR of one. If you call these kind of hands, you wanna be very deep so that you can win a lot if you hit the board hard.

Tend to agree, but it really sucks against described V six handed. We are probably ahead of his 3! range (I think he's got most broadway combos and all Ax hands in that range), but too short to flat. We also have to open this hand in this situation, so it's a crappy situation.

Many people at the table said it was a straight punt but I didn't feel it was that out of line against this particular player - I guess I thought maybe I had more fold equity than I did though

What did V show up with?

I'm not a huge fan of a 4b here, but I guess if you're going to rip, A5s is probably a decent candidate since we block some ace combos. Even with the specific metagame, this is a slight +ev spot at best. I think you're better off realizing your edge, taking a passive line and looking for a better situation with 26bb

AJ off

I'm probably jamming 99+, AT+ and a "few" bluffs in this spot. AT might be too thin idk, it's close but I'm probably shipping

and after second thought, I'm wondering if something like 9Ts would be a better 4b jam candidate here. I'm interested in hearing others thoughts on what 4b bluff hands we should have here. Interesting spot op

If Villain is pot committed, it probably is a fold, but the Villain as described will have plenty of hands we are ahead of, and we are only in really bad shape vs AA. Against 99+, AQ+ and all suited broadways, we are 38%. We don't need much fold equity to get that to zero chip ev.

Fold pre. No need to 4-bet bluff when you have almost no FE. Just jam something like 88+,AQ+

Villain's raise to 2k is greater than 3x. It is also 30% of effective stack which is where I draw the pot commitment line.

So given that villain could have made it non pot committing in position I would fold. Even if villain had made it 1,680 I would have folded.

Never calling because villain will always shove on flop. At best we won't know if we are ahead unless we flop 2 pair+. Which is rare. And on a flush draw vs a pair we are less than 50% so I don't like where the hand is going after the 3-bet...

okay, so I've given this hand some more thought over the last few hours and I think "if" you are going to 4b bluff, it should definitely be a pair. I emphasize "if" because as others have mentioned, this definitely should be a low frequency 4b bluff (if ever) because the FE is razor thin. The metagame is the only reason I'd consider randomly selecting 1-2 pairs to 4b bluff here.

I don't mind the 4! jam if he had 3! to something like 1500. His large sizing is more indicative of a hand he's will ing to go with, and our hand performs poorly against that range.

Always interesting these spots. A5s cEV tends to work out a little better than expected.

Tough to see a V 3!/f range at this sizing but can still see decent equity to rip against his 3!/c range. Potentially neutral with A5dd against described V but give him a range and run the numbers.

The way to beat these stakes is not to have a balanced 4bet range where you shove on marginal spots. Your goal is to get into clear profitable situations. This ine marginal so overfolding is the way to go fo me.

I doubt it will be a massive leak if you have no 4bet bluff range on these stakes.

Agreed 100%. But, the OP was wondering if this was a 'straight punt'. I don't think that even if it is -EV, it is a total punt. Certainly a play I would make if I felt I was outclassed and needed to embrace some variance.

It's interesting, against most of the players in these fields, I tend to totally agree with you and in this case, I got two of the much more competent aggro regs on my left at this stage of this six max bird seated right next to me and maybe that got in my head a little. I guess it's hard because they know I am opening 35% 4-6 handed with my style and how I play so I don't know.

Maybe it's ego, maybe it's insecurity to the point below about being outclassed, or maybe I am just overthinking it - Maybe I just need to play straightforward TAG ABC, even in late stages and my issue is needing to find the fold button more so than having a balanced 4-bet range

Forget about being balance unless in the very high limits and you play against the same top players all the time. I play 12 tables at the same time. Do you think I am able to spot if your 4-bet is balanced or not? I do not have time, nor the skills to do it. Moreover, how can I do on rooms without HUD? No idea. And I am a winning player and I cannot catch you if your 4bets are unbalanced or not. What about the bigger fish than me? they are simply clicking buttons. Focus on the higher EV stuff than this.

The eff stack is 25bb right, seems too shallow to def/4b here.. if we were deeper can make a case for flatting or 4betting as we have more chip utility / large payoffs when we hit w spec hand. Here tho I proly just ditch it