Levels are 400/800/800 BB ante. I am one of the shorter stacks with 20bb.

The table is passive with lots of limping and very little 3-betting. EP all fold and MP - SB limp to me. So that’s 7bb in he pot. Callers are generally meek. How wide are you shoving here ? Do we have any shoving range at all ?

I think something like A-10s +, AJo+, 77+. Not sure how good this range is and I would prolly include KQs.

Shouldn’t it be wider given that our fold equity is high?

I would limp with suited cards and small pairs, looking for a homerun.

A-K, A-Q are shoves. 9's are better are shoves.

A-J, probably. A-10, I probably call.

K-Q, K-J suited, 50% shove, 50% call. Off suit mostly call.

Q-J, Q-10, limp.

Don't think I am ever raising anything other than a ship with 20BB's.

I would just raise qq,kk,aa. No reason to jam these hands and lose value. Maybe wider but not sure. I would be worried that person open limping could have a strong hand and limped to be deceptive.

I bad players will limp hands such as aj,aq, maybe even ak with stack sizes like this if they are weak tight so I feel range should be a little more weighted toward value and not too light.

Wow okay. I thought it would be way looser.

Agree with JKpoker. If the dynamic of the table is that there are some weak tight players in early position who would limp as strong as A-Q or jacks, I might just raise for value with my highest range, and maybe not jam with most other hands.

It depends on the players and how likely they are trapping or passively playing fairly big hands. Online, I am careful raising limpers and look at stats and notes if possible, as they are trapping so often, or will call with some pp or ace or whatever.

A lot depends on the first and last limper. If the first one is trappy we need to be tight. If the last one is loose and or has a big stack, he may be tempted by the good odds he will be getting. That being said, shoving lots of Ax here is usually very profitable.

^^ agree with this.
The first limper is the guy you have to get by. If the last limper is the sb, you are almost guaranteed a fold from that spot.

Thanks all! Lesson learnt. No shoving with 57o. MP with AQo called it off and I lost.

Yikes 57o? Just bump the table and check and hope you smash a flop. This is how you punt 20bbs. It’s not worth the risk jamming here.

Also I agree with prior posters that said the initial limper is the biggest thing to think about. Generally people will be limping behind super weak compared to an open limp range. People do odd things in the live arena. I once jammed 15-20bbs over a button limp late in an mtt expecting to get a fold at a super high freq. guy limped jj which isn’t something I would ever do (limp button with jj). People do odd things so I would always be a little cautious with an open limper

Yeah, people do odd things and when it’s 5 people I should have just played it straight forward. Even though I knew some are capable of limping AQ AJ, I decided to shove without much thinking.

The issue is that in these games people will open limp a lot of strong stuff especially in so- especially utg and utg +1 so shoving hands like 22-55 and a4 and stuff is that you get snapped a decent amount and you’re in awful shape
Vs lp limps it’s a diff story and you can shove 20bb way wider than nash and print

True that, thanks.

Shoving 75o is just so far from GTO. You can't run over limpers that badly. Someone takes a sub optimal line limping behind with AQo and you are making it work for him. If you shove suited broadway or something like that you have reasonable equity if called, so it can work as a semibluff.

I have mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand I want to take it down if possible without a flop. I probably shove pocket pairs 66+ maybe 55+.

As for Ax I would shove AQ+ and maybe AJs. I do think in this kind of game you will see a lot of AK/AQ that limped because people tend to hate raising with "drawing" hands. LOL.

I think the chances of getting a shove through, while good will attract some AK/AQ type hands that are either trapping or thats how they play. The other hand I worry about is 88. They seem to limp and call some shoves but I think that is a lot less likely than AA being the first limper.

My mixed feelings are, seeing a flop in a limped pot with most hands is actually ideal and if I have straight and/or flush possibilities I would rather have more rather than less callers on the flop and beyond.