I had just been moved to the table after doubling up from 13bb. I had about 27bb behind when facing two raises from mid position.

The first raiser looked like a homeless Hispanic man who raised 3x. The man sitting next to him didn't have the greatest hygiene either. He looked like he hadn't shaved in a month and I guess he drove a 1990 modded 2wd pickup. I really wanted to play a pot with them when I looked down at 97s... but this was a really odd stack depth for me because I just can't call off here oop - I mean what am I going to do if the board comes 985? gii? - and fold if I don't hit? ... I really wanted to play a pot with these guys even if it was oop. Too hopeful?

Also, being an internet player I tend to play heavily into live appearance stereotypes. Is that a mistake? It's kind of like if someone has a screen name with "69" or "trumpsupporter" or an avatar with guns on it, I tend to give those folks very little respect as players. Just some food for thought.

Yeah definitely wanna play pots with anyone who supports trump lmao...

If the flop came what you specified 985 I think you can check shove... pocket tens are gonna hate life and they can have so many draws of their own. They both could be continuing with naked overs.

As for pre ... that's a tough spot. I find that hard to fold tbh... I am looking forward to seeing what others have to say about that.

yeah, id flat.

obvious you get in a lot of tough spots post flop but with all the money in the pot and with you having somewhat of a hand it seems like a decent spot to see a flop.

I’m not against folding pre to preserve our stack but prolly calling and expecting to check fold a lot on most flops.

Btw on a flop like one stated, I don’t think pocket 10s is going to hate life facing a check above line from 9-7 hand. That’s a comical statement and easy call off. Are people really going to flag bigger hands from the blinds with a 25-30bb stack? Doubt it

I enjoyed the OP. You write well


It is not a mistake. ...”to stereotype” is a valuable tool which has somehow become almost frowned apon. (Outside of poker I’m talking here)

Stereotypeing helps you make better decisions in poker and in life. Getting it wrong occasionally doesn’t make it any less powerful

So we do flat pre.

The flop came 985. the original raiser continued and the other guy Called.

It's back to me.

Now what?

i think its probably pretty close to raising for protection and calling and playing turns.

one problem is if we call hit our miracle 6 and check raise queens might even talk himself into a fold, because its kind of a scary board at that point.

Raising for protection? With this board and action I don’t think we are ahead very often and as u point out only the 7 is a really good card for us

I think we have to pitch it, maybe I would call sometimes. But I assume we are check folding any turn bricks so this hand is venturing towards spewy if we are still around OTT.

I would likely call if we are HU to be turn. 3 way makes me feel like we are chasing too much

Guys considering that we only have like 27bb to start isn't calling a little thin odds wise? ... well we have 9 outs... if we call to fold ui ott we would have put over 1/3 of our stack in.

You're saying shoving at this point is spew?

Well yeah that’s pretty much what I said. :> that’s why calling pre is questionable when we have to hit the flop soooo hard we are not deep enough to make up for all the time we don’t and when we do semi hit decisions get very hard and mistakes get made

I don’t like shoving without a read just called by better and it doesn’t get through enough besides unless u have a read otherwise

I think I’d shove online a bit, not live though

My arguments playing this pot just to play with the perceived weak players:

1) Yes you want to play pots when deep with weak players. However, the "value" of player weakness is limited with shallow stacks. The largest error they could possibly make is 27BBs. Compared to early stages where they can make 100BBs+ errors.

2) The stacks limit the play. What I mean by this is with stacks like this, most of the play is limited to preflop and flop play. Anyone still left in is pretty much pot committed and the decisions are over. Even weak players might be fairly competent with preflop and flop play, however, their weaknesses start to show as you go deeper in the hand. With limited stacks, you will rarely be able to pressure them on the "critical" streets of turn and river. Most of the deciding has been done by that point.

3) Weak players come in all different forms. Do you have a read on their weakness yet? Are they too loose? Too tight? Have sizing tells? You only got to the table. You can make "appearance" judgments, but that is not a read to be able to exploit yet.

I don't think it's wrong to call pre-flop, if you play well post-flop. How much did he bet? What are the suits (I am guessing rainbow) of the flop? Also need the stack sizes for both players to really understand what the bet represents.

In a cash game or with 100BB+ stacks, this is a call depending on how much he bet.

Pre is a fold AINEC. When 30bb deep, preflop is the most important street. Wait for a better spot. You should be going to the flop with a range advantage and a good spr to stack off by the turn.

i just wanted to chime in on this . In a perfect world ‘stereotyping’ (or analyzing) is exactly what you claim

The problem is when you are surrounded by uneducated sheep- at that point stereotyping leads to paralysis and fear. because people are too stupid to understand what they are seeing

IMO of course

Super easy defend pre. Wouldn't even consider folding.

I disagree about the super easy part. I probably end up calling here more often than not when I play, but definitely not a "super easy" call. This call is borderline at best and in reality is probably going to lose some money in the long run.

Yep. Definitely a call at 2.5x or less, and I think people get used to defending the small size and may not adjust to the larger size. It's never a "super easy" call to throw in 7% of our stack out of position with nine high.

Stereotyping at the table is definitely good, and generally I see sloppy unkempt people being too loose (which would make me want to defend wider), but it's not like that's a rule and absent a real read their appearances shouldn't factor at all into your decisions in this hand. Let's be honest, you actually have no reads here.

Pre is close but ultimately a fold. Best case you have ~25% equity 3-ways and you're getting 4.2:1 to defend and sure you win a few extra chips postflop sometimes and sure (very rarely) you can even double up, but you're OOP so it's going to be really, really hard to realize your equity and you'll actually need to be realizing your equity most of the time just to breakeven. And if you don't know what do on some of your best flops like 985 you're just not going to make this defend work enough to justify putting in 7% of your stack.

As played you have to continue at least one street but I don't see how you're ever good here at this point. Live villains play very straightfoward multiway, this board hits your defend range and also the flatter's range too, so I don't see too many cbets with air being made here. And you beat really none of the non-air portion of this guy's cbet range. I guess he can have AK but not all villains open that to 3x, and certainly they're not all cbetting that hand here. What was the sizing?

you get 3.75-1 pre (assuming there are no antes in play, op didn’t mention that) in which case you need 21% equity to break even. in case we have 25% equity vs their opening ranges (which seems reasonable but could even be higher than 25% depending on their actual ranges) folding is terrible and defending is printing money. i would never consider folding this.

i dont think its tough to realize your equity with 97s at all. flop seems like a trivial x/jam given spr even if we think villain is close to never bet/folding. if he ever does bet/fold (which he will, not a fan of assigning 0% bluff/100% value ranges) it’s absurdly profitable.

given smaller stacks/sprs you go broke in mtts occasionally, super std though.

Yes, you have 25% equity IF you get to see all 5 cards. Being OOP causes us not realize our full equity most of the time. I disagree with your assessment that it is not difficult to realize our equity, just because you want to jam flops where you have some equity.

Preflop, I guess it's depending on villains. Against strong players with this stack depth I'll lean more towards a fold. Against recs, I'll lean more towards a call and adjust depending on their tendencies. Against unknowns, I like to fold and wait to have some info on the table before starting to play marginal spots. But I agree, generally speaking you don't want to play with 27BB oop a hand that will give you most of time a draw or a middle pair or air.

OTF, depending on if there is one card of your suit or not, you have 40% or 36% against AA, can't really fold that equity 3 way especially that you could also have the best hand vs AK and 66 for example.