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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 06-11-2021, 01:17 PM   #1
Li0nheart
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40 tourney icm suicide.

Live game 8 left, 6 make the money, i have 15 big blinds (mid big stack) 4 handed table. (not sure about other stacks)

UTG (5-6 bbs) fold
BTN (hero 15bbs) open 54hh
SB (3-4 bbs) fold
BB (villian 22 ish bbs) call

rougly 5 blinds in the pot

FLop 2h3c9h
BB donks roughly 4 bbs
Hero?

Spoiler i shoved and busted. Thinking i should have folded pre. Didnt think calling was a good move as its too much of my stack. Folding flop seems really bad too though. Villain is a boomer who donks strong but vulnerable hands.

Thoughts?
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:31 PM   #2
Beachman42
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Re: 40 tourney icm suicide.

Personally, I fold pre here. If you open & SB jams you are priced in to a call with 5 high.

As played, shoving is likely correct as you flopped the world. Sorry you lost.
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:36 PM   #3
ledn
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Re: 40 tourney icm suicide.

Ugh COVID... 8 left and its 2 4 handed tables, thats gross.

Opening 54s is going to be really bad vs a competent bb.

Other stacks matter. Is bb the chip leader in the tourney and what other small stacks are there? Would you be the chip leader with a double up? The two short stacks at your table are very short and if the other table has one or two similar stacks then you are in ICM hell.

On the other hand, a double up would give you a big stack and add another short stack, allowing you to start punishing other middle stacks, so if you think you have fold equity then its fine.

As played, given your read, villain probably isnt folding to a shove so I am just calling. If we brick turn then fold to a jam and if villain checks you have an interesting decision whether to rip or take the free card.
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Old 06-11-2021, 01:44 PM   #4
Li0nheart
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Re: 40 tourney icm suicide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledn View Post
Ugh COVID... 8 left and its 2 4 handed tables, thats gross.

Opening 54s is going to be really bad vs a competent bb.

Other stacks matter. Is bb the chip leader in the tourney and what other small stacks are there? Would you be the chip leader with a double up? The two short stacks at your table are very short and if the other table has one or two similar stacks then you are in ICM hell.

On the other hand, a double up would give you a big stack and add another short stack, allowing you to start punishing other middle stacks, so if you think you have fold equity then its fine.

As played, given your read, villain probably isnt folding to a shove so I am just calling. If we brick turn then fold to a jam.
Yepppp and it was self dealt :c.
The guy wasnt particularly competent, however i didnt know that it wasnt an open if he was.

Difficult to say what the other stacks were. There definitely weren't a whole lot more chips in play though. See i think normally i like the idea of flatting with stacks at a normal size, but problem is, calling and then folding turn is dumb cos thats just begging on hitting, but is that better icm wise?
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:10 PM   #5
ledn
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Re: 40 tourney icm suicide.

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Originally Posted by Li0nheart View Post
Yepppp and it was self dealt :c.
The guy wasnt particularly competent, however i didnt know that it wasnt an open if he was.

Difficult to say what the other stacks were. There definitely weren't a whole lot more chips in play though. See i think normally i like the idea of flatting with stacks at a normal size, but problem is, calling and then folding turn is dumb cos thats just begging on hitting, but is that better icm wise?
Yea just from the two small stacks at your table, bb should be shoving it back in your face a ton and its worse for you if there are more small stacks on the other table, and as mention we are priced into call a sb shove as well.

Being a medium stack at an FT sucks. You cant really do much until the shorties bust first without giving up EV.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:57 PM   #6
deuceblocker
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Re: 40 tourney icm suicide.

It depends on how flat the payouts are. In online tournaments with 6 places paying, the payouts are often really flat. It still is a bad open with an extremely short stack in the SB and a bigger stack in the BB at this stage.

I would shove over the flop bet regardless.
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Old 06-14-2021, 02:20 AM   #7
auralex14
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Re: 40 tourney icm suicide.

I agree with the others, fold pf. With these stack sizes your best bet is to play tight and pick your spots until you reach the final table (unless one of the shorties doubles and the dynamic shifts). I imagine you only needed one more player to bust until they switched from short handed to final table.

Once you’ve raised, been called, and hit this flop, then I think your shove is correct.

You really have to adjust and be mindful of stack sizes (not just at your table) and ICM. I agree with your title, this was suicidal.

If you do decide to open in this spot (not recommended) then I’d size up to 2.5-3x rather than minraise.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:49 PM   #8
beezgamble
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Re: 40 tourney icm suicide.

fold pf but as played snap jam.
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Old 06-22-2021, 09:38 AM   #9
kimoser22
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Re: 40 tourney icm suicide.

Fold pre- and let the 3BB stack gii with BB…as played I peel flop as live villains don’t usually have pot/ folds on the flop…jam flop is fine imo but only if V can fold some of his donk range.
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