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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 02-17-2019, 06:30 AM   #1
YouAreAwesome
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$40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

We are on the third blind level of a local tournament - 20 minute levels. Starting stack 85k. This is villains first preflop raise.

Blinds 200/400

Villain is UTG (105000) raises to 800
Hero is BTN (115000) with Q5 calls
All other players fold.

FLOP
QT4
Pot: 2200

Villain bets 1200
Hero calls

TURN
5
Pot: 4600

Villain bets 3000
Hero raises to 8000
Villain tank calls

RIVER
9
Pot: 20600

Villain checks
Hero bets 10000
Villain raises 20000

Hero?
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:02 AM   #2
numberonedonk
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

fold pre duh

click call now
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Old 02-18-2019, 12:24 AM   #3
Jonezy007
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

Fold pre call now lol
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:48 PM   #4
YouAreAwesome
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

Flatting minraise in position 260bbs deep likely going heads up cause blinds fold so often and almost never squeeze... can't be terrible...

Heh, so no hero folds yet...
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Old 02-20-2019, 02:01 PM   #5
fro_dude
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YouAreAwesome View Post
Flatting minraise in position 260bbs deep likely going heads up cause blinds fold so often and almost never squeeze... can't be terrible...
It's bad because of this particular hand characteristics. It has really bad RIO. You'll often hit top pair and be up against a better top pair, hit 2 pair and get counterfeited, or run into a bigger flush (which may be likely in this hand)...those are the times you lose a massive pot, which likely will never be made up for by the times you're able to leverage position to win a small pot with this hand.
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Old 02-21-2019, 01:27 AM   #6
YouAreAwesome
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

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Originally Posted by fro_dude View Post
It's bad because of this particular hand characteristics. It has really bad RIO. You'll often hit top pair and be up against a better top pair, hit 2 pair and get counterfeited, or run into a bigger flush (which may be likely in this hand)...those are the times you lose a massive pot, which likely will never be made up for by the times you're able to leverage position to win a small pot with this hand.
True when playing against decent players. False when playing against local knowns with obvious tells and generally bad. I've found playing hands like this a small % of the time is fine because my perceived range is usually so strong. The other worries you mention don't concern me. I'm more interested in the river anyway. It's a clear cut obvious snap call theoretically but does a local ever min xraise river with air? Can the raise be exploited by folding?
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Old 02-21-2019, 02:21 PM   #7
numberonedonk
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

You would never get to the river if you folded pre and the fact that your having so much difficulty with the river when you make one of the best hands you can make with your hand basically just proves you should fold pre.

I disagree about your perceived range usually being strong as well.

Quote:
False when playing against local knowns with obvious tells and generally bad.
Quote:
It's a clear cut obvious snap call theoretically but does a local ever min xraise river with air?
....
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:36 AM   #8
YouAreAwesome
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

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Originally Posted by numberonedonk View Post
You would never get to the river if you folded pre and the fact that your having so much difficulty with the river when you make one of the best hands you can make with your hand basically just proves you should fold pre.

I disagree about your perceived range usually being strong as well.





....
This spot could occur holding QJs so fold that pre? Its marginally stronger blocking Jx spade combos but basically the same. Raising pre, flop, and turn a small percentage of the time so i could literally be in the same spot. Snapping river?
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:39 AM   #9
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

Fold pre.
AP, V might be raising weaker flushes -> you have to (sigh) call
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:28 AM   #10
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

Yeah easy call pre
I'd often raise flop - it's one of flops you were looking for
Sizings on other streets are bad tho - turn and river should be larger.
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:58 AM   #11
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

Pre is meh. I get wanting to expand calling range vs. UTG min raise opens but if we're calling every suited Qx here we're calling too much of our range. If BB is even remotely sane they should be calling min raise here a ton so we will very often be multi-way here. I'd almost prefer taking hands like these and 3-bet bluffing them some tiny percentage of the time than always calling with them.

I think I lean slightly towards call with Q5s as played on flop, just because we should have plenty of other flush draws we can x/r raise as bluffs and I like having some top pair+fd hands in my call range. But raise probably isn't bad either and maybe we should do so with our worst suited Qx here.

Agree that turn is too small. Going somewhat bigger on river is fine, but I'd probably want to save most of my overbets for when I have the As in my hand.

Last edited by jpgiro; 02-22-2019 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:03 PM   #12
Mr Rick
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

With 20 minute levels I'm calling with Q5s OTB pre flop.

I probably raise the flop to make it look like a flush draw, but with top pair I have no problem with just calling.

As played I call the river
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:39 PM   #13
YouAreAwesome
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Re: $40 80man 8max -- Easy call or hero fold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro View Post
Pre is meh. I get wanting to expand calling range vs. UTG min raise opens but if we're calling every suited Qx here we're calling too much of our range. If BB is even remotely sane they should be calling min raise here a ton so we will very often be multi-way here. I'd almost prefer taking hands like these and 3-bet bluffing them some tiny percentage of the time than always calling with them.

I think I lean slightly towards call with Q5s as played on flop, just because we should have plenty of other flush draws we can x/r raise as bluffs and I like having some top pair+fd hands in my call range. But raise probably isn't bad either and maybe we should do so with our worst suited Qx here.

Agree that turn is too small. Going somewhat bigger on river is fine, but I'd probably want to save most of my overbets for when I have the As in my hand.
Sweet, agree with everything here and note, I'm not flatting here with Qxs, I'm flatting a very small % of the time with any bad suited hand based on the way the table has been playing and my own image. I have my attempted "gto" baseline preflop stuff but if I'm bricking and havent had a hand in an orbit i might expand my range in good spots. Whats ur play on the river?
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