Didnt have agro dynamics of me 3b-ing a lot. Not sure we can expect him to be shoving suited wheel aces and small pocket pairs with these dynamics and stacksizes but do you still like 3b non all in? 3b all in? Or just flat if you think you have a bigger skill edge on the table?

PokerStars - 45000/90000 Ante 14000 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 3,667,065 (VPIP: 20.50, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 4.65, Hands: 202)
Hero (BB): 4,120,056
UTG: 1,696,139 (VPIP: 20.75, PFR: 19.23, 3Bet Preflop: 10.53, Hands: 53)
UTG+1: 2,141,290 (VPIP: 19.38, PFR: 17.45, 3Bet Preflop: 7.27, Hands: 160)
MP: 1,669,968 (VPIP: 25.50, PFR: 16.00, 3Bet Preflop: 8.60, Hands: 1,723)
MP+1: 3,220,705 (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 11.19, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 136)
MP+2: 1,657,129 (VPIP: 23.88, PFR: 16.79, 3Bet Preflop: 9.26, Hands: 137)
CO: 2,692,790 (VPIP: 16.49, PFR: 9.38, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 97)
BTN: 2,999,858 (VPIP: 19.68, PFR: 17.23, 3Bet Preflop: 13.00, Hands: 251)

9 players post ante of 14,000, SB posts SB 45,000, Hero posts BB 90,000

Pre Flop: (pot: 261,000) Hero has T T

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 209,700, fold, [color=red]Hero

Fine to 3b your std sizing imo, he might decide to 4b shove worse pairs and other stuff and we can easily call it off

dont think anything but shoving makes too much sense.

Jamming 33BB will force him to play correctly against our exact hand. Just 3 bet to something like 650K (and call jams). If you have to play poker out of position, so be it.

I think I prefer a jam in this spot.

I think 3-bet here is my standard, probably close to the bottom of our calling range if we get jammed on so likely villain dependent, although vs. button we should generally look to call. Don't think flatting or 3-bet jamming are terrible options either, tbh.

shove camp

would be interesting to check the ICM range for shoving, but the payout structure and the bounty size are required.

Even if it is for >30biggs, it is still a btn vs bb dynamic. Therefore, i d rather shove than letting him spaz out 4b gii with a marginal hand we are flipping against (QJss+). Tho, infos on bounties and payout structure would be nice to have as icm has to be considered here. CL vs 2nd CL ai situations are always pretty shtty to deal with, more so when we are still playing full ring.
That is why, in those spots, you still have to be very cautious. BUt imho (without any solid info on V being a nit and never 4b shoving anything worst than AK and JJ+ here), 3b to 700k ish sitting on a 4M stack (>40bb) only to fold to a 4b jam w/ 1010's would be really meh. How big was his bounty compared to other oppos?

3bet to about 500k, call it off.

Even though you don't have any direct dynamics with villain, he has a pretty standard stat line, so you have to at least give him credit for possibly or probably having a standard 4bet strategy as well.

Granted shoving is the lower variance play, but I'm ok with the higher variance option here. He may shove with weaker pairs, and will have a bluff range improving your equity when you get it in, however, some % he will outdraw you with the weaker hands.

But the reward side to is two-fold: 1) You cannot go broke even if things go bad. You will still have a decent shove stack. 2) If you stack him, block theory comes into play as you will have a full block of chips over the second place stack and you can use that block to dominate the table. If you properly can use the dominant stack if you obtain it, I think it will create more equity than a standard ICM measure will provide.

Never heard of this 'block theory'...

^^^

The origins of block theory started here at 2+2

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...=&fpart=1&vc=1

what a great resource 2p2 was back in the day

Basically block theory is about thinking of stacks as blocks. For instance if we were at a table with the following stacks:

A - 10k
B - 10k
C - 20k
D - 5k

It would be said that player A has 1 block, player B has 1 block, player C has 2 blocks, and player D has 1/2 block.

The extra block of chips that player C holds has less value than his first block. Because theoretically, he can never use more than 1 block on any given hand.

However, player C has an advantage at this time, because that extra block of chips is now a weapon if used correctly. He can use that extra block of "worthless" chips to really pressure the other players. If used correctly, this extra block can increase your equity beyond "ICM measurements." So it is worth taking some extra risk (within reason) to obtain the extra block of chips over the rest of the table.

We already have a blocking stack regarding every single oppo here. i dont get how taking a higher variance line would be the best option in that precise spot as ICM has to be considered. 1st vs 2nd in chips, full r., btn vs bb dynamic... At a big field ft w/ potential massive ROI regarding our bi. Imho, we shouldnt try to be cute and just go for the whole thing. Would be a different story with 35+biggs eff. I agree

SB: 3,667,065 <~~
Hero (BB): 4,120,056
UTG: 1,696,139
UTG+1: 2,141,290
MP: 1,669,968
MP+1: 3,220,705 <~~
MP+2: 1,657,129
CO: 2,692,790 <~~
BTN: 2,999,858 <~~

No we don't. A full block means you are 2x any other stack at the table.

And the villain here is 33BBs effective. I can't see shoving 33BBs over a 2.2x raise. To me that is just way too large. I wouldn't personally ever shove that large under any circumstances.

Look also at the other factors a large shove here:

1) It affects our range. What does a large shove like this do to our entire range? We can't 3bet as often with this sizing and we wouldn't want to shove AA/KK here.
2) We surrender any future leverage we may have by shoving here. Leverage is the ability to make him fold to later bets. There is some range of hands he will call either bet with, that he would not 4bet, and that misses the flop. With our leverage, we get him to surrender that equity in the pot.
3) It removes our safety net. What if he calls and we see the worst flop possible? When we are not all in, we can decide to surrender and move on instead of doubling him up.

Oh yeah of course. My bad. Wrote it too fast. Thx for the erratum. Still not convinced that opting for a high variance line in that precise spot is the way to go tho.

shove is good, u gain over 10% in stack if he folds
if he calls with say top 5% of his hands, you are 43% to win, which is near break even

shoving is +EV for sure and more straight forward

I understand your points as they are logical and pretty obvious. However, imho, we dont absolutely have to opt for a balanced strat in that precise spot as ICM considerations are a big part of our final decision here.
And dont forget that this a bounty tourney.
I am also wondering, following your reasoning, what is your plan vs a 4b shove from V?
Regarding your reasoning, are you leaning toward sigh folding or sigh calling?

With this villain's stats I would have to lean towards a call. I would expect his 4bet value range to be about 99+/AQ+ with a decent amount if not fully balanced bluff range.

Our pot odds would be 1.5:1 and TT would be a favorite against a balanced range and have 50% equity against a range with the bluff frequency reduced by 50%. Even against a range with minimal bluffs (10%) we get 46% equity.

Against this villain with standard payouts our ICM pressure should be about 20%. Using that with the pot odds our ICM call equity should be about 45%.

I totally get your point eventhough there are some postulates which might not be accurate regarding that precise spot (V being "balanced", reduction of bluff freq by 50%, ICM pressure "should" be 20% and so on). Still, I get your reasoning. It is valid in a vacuum. Obvsly we should lean more toward calling than folding once we opt for the 3bb call ai play as you demonstrated it (though we dont have very solid info on V tendencies). I was talking "variance-wise" as we are in great shape at a FT w/ loads of ROI and ICM at stakes. IMHO, that is why i d personnaly go with the "less variance" play. But i might be wrong and that is why i discuss that type of stuff here. Could run some sims too but talking and sharing emancipate our minds further than just in the poker micro-cosmos. Cheers

Just curious those that are saying jam how do we go about constructing a bluff range for this or do we not even bother. (Not trolling legitimate question)