Down to about 15 players left from a field of 500 in a BOSS event on ACR. I have something like the 4th or 5th highest stack of the remaining players in the tournament.

Villain's stats 29/28 below, and he was playing even looser at this table. Opening an absolute ton of hands including from early position and folding to a lot of 3bets (70% fold to 3bet). I had 3bet him once before myself and took it down after a cbet on a pretty dry flop.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 5000/10000 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 28.77 BB (VPIP: 27.55, PFR: 20.43, 3Bet Preflop: 11.90, Hands: 99)
MP: 49.76 BB (VPIP: 25.44, PFR: 16.77, 3Bet Preflop: 6.76, Hands: 170)
CO: 30.51 BB (VPIP: 23.88, PFR: 17.44, 3Bet Preflop: 10.48, Hands: 272)
BTN: 12.87 BB (VPIP: 19.70, PFR: 14.84, 3Bet Preflop: 5.45, Hands: 132)
Hero (SB): 42.09 BB
BB: 64.5 BB (VPIP: 27.91, PFR: 22.62, 3Bet Preflop: 17.24, Hands: 87)
UTG: 30.99 BB (VPIP: 15.56, PFR: 11.36, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 45)

7 players post ante of 0.1 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.2 BB) Hero has Q K

fold, UTG+1 raises to 2.1 BB, MP calls 2.1 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 6.1 BB, fold, UTG+1 calls 4 BB, fold

Flop: (16 BB, 2 players) 8 9 5
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks

Turn: (16 BB, 2 players) 2
Hero bets 5.56 BB, UTG+1 calls 5.56 BB

River: (27.11 BB, 2 players) Q
Hero bets 30.33 BB and is all-in

I think the preflop 3bet is standard given how loose villain is playing. Ugly flop for our range, so my plan is to c/f flop, but when he checks back and the turn blank comes, I decide to stab cheaply since I think there's a lot of air in his range too, and I don't think he's sharp enough to realize that my range is trash at this point.

When he calls the turn, I think he has mostly weak one-pair hands in his range. He has 17 BBs behind on the river when the Q comes, so I shove it all in for value.

Thoughts?

I'll take your word for it that the PF is standard. Closing the action, I'd just call.

I like both flop and turn. What weak one pair hands is he calling you with on the turn? I suspect he'd have bet an overpair to the flop, and not many other hands make one pair.

What will he call the river with that is worse? Does he really call 66-77, or Ax that flopped middle or bottom pair?

I suspect your jam will get through a lot, but I doubt it will show a profit when called. Even loose players will value their tournament life more than that.

What hands can he have here that beat you? Slow played sets, and JT all make sense for villain.

Why didn't you go bigger pre? 3x OOP with a caller between seems too small.

Flop looks good.

What are you trying to accomplish with the tiny bet OTT? What air does he have that doesn't bet the flop? AxXx with no pair or BDFD?

When he checks back flop, I interpret that as a hand that wants to get to showdown so I was expecting a call from something like T9 or A9 or maybe TT if he decided not to shove that pre.

I would expect most villains to bet a set on flop because it's so drawy that a ton of cards could kill his action. I would also expect him to play a draw like JT more aggressively. And if he does play JT this passively, he also probably has a lot of club draws in his range, some of which also include a weaker Q.

At least that's my thinking. Sounds like you think his range is stronger? Would you c/fold then?

I 3bet small so I can have a 3bet/fold range here. Any bigger and it's hard to do that.

OTT mostly just random Ax hands or broadway hands that whiffed the flop.

If your 3bet is too small to be effective, then you jam for value. You have to 3bet at least 8bb here to force them to shove or fold. If you have too small of a stack to have a 3b/fold range then you need to either flat all in position or jam all-in. If I have 28bb here with KQ against a LAG and a MP call, I'm just jamming. I really, really dislike the 3bet to only 6bb. You're giving both of them a great price to continue.

As played, don't like the small turn bet. What hands are 3 betting, checking the flop, then betting small on the turn? We're 3 betting Ax suited, KQ, 8s+. Exactly zero of those hands improve on the turn so your bet is not believable at all. You are always betting sets and overpair with how wet that board is on the flop. It's a bad turn bet. If you think he's calling 3bets light or playing too many hands, you have to cbet more aggressively when he is calling your 3-bets to punish him because you have range advantage with your tighter holdings.

As played I don't like the river jam, either. He can easily have 10J given his line, so you're getting snapped off when you are beat. And when you beat him, he's folding any of 78 or 56 that he could play the same way. Only jam when you can get called by worse.

I would actually check the river and try to bluff catch a small/medium bet. If he jams, it's pukey, but you open yourself up to stacking him more allowing him to bluff rather than jamming for value.

I had 42 BBs here not 28. And it's not a great price to continue bc I the majority of his range has terrible reverse implied odds against my range. If we were deeper you'd be right, but he just can't flat that wide with such a short stack.



100% agree that I need to cbet aggressively, but this just isn't the flop to do it since it connects with so many hands. On the turn, I 100% agree that I'm not repping much, but after checking back the flop his range is super weak too. If he has something random like AJo there, he folds right? I definitely wouldn't try this against a good thinking player, but against this LAGtard whose range has a lot of air in it, I figured I get a fold at least 1/3 times.



I guess I just expect most players to play draws more aggressively than that, especially when SPR is this low. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Bumping this. Curious for more opinions on villain's river range.

Don't mind flatting pre mostly vs. EP open, even against a wide range. If we do squeeze I think we have to go bigger.

As played we should almost always be c-betting flop to roughly the size of our 3-bet. That board shouldn't smash an EP 3-bet calling range that often (how many 8x or 9x do they have) and if we can get Ax to fold sometimes that's a big deal. We also would be betting all of our overpairs and good draws so it's ok to mix in some of the weakest hands in our range as c-bets as well. If we get called or raised on the flop we can mostly give up unless we improve.

I think if we check flop and don't turn equity I'd much rather fold than try to turn my hand into a bluff, but if we are betting I'd want to go slightly bigger.

River jam is interesting. It sort of depends on if you think villain is capable of hero calling you with TT-JJ, really don't expect very many Qx to show up here unless it's exactly QT or QJ of clubs. I do think check/calling to pick off bluffs makes more sense than leading but I can see some merit for a shove.

Preflop I believe it is OK - jamming 40BB pre is too wild.
On the flop you have to create a plan for the hand, where you have 2 options, depending on the actions and observations on previous hands:
1. Aggressive play - cbet around 3bet size, same on turn and jam river on the Q.
2. Cautious play - c\c flop, c\c turn and c\c river.

I do not like the turn bet, as you rep only 22, 52, 82, 92, none of which 3b pre.
So I would go c\c here.

On river you push away all worse\bluff hands and get called of better ones. So here I go check and call any non-shove hand.

Pre I definitely think we either need to 3b or fold, but I'm going to go against the grain and say that maybe based on positions/stack sizes/history maybe we should just be folding? His stack size means we need to 3b small to give ourselves room to fold and I just don't see us getting a fold all that often against a UTG open.

I'd probably cbet flop but I think this is strategy dependent, if you want to have a checking strategy here given how you perceive the ranges I'm cool with that. That said when this turn comes I think I just check and resign myself to giving up, even if that means we get bluffed, because we'd certainly be cbetting all of our backdoor diamonds otf (at least I think we would) and we dont have a ton of value here.

Don't mind the river shove because the x/x x/c action probably leans him more towards weaker sdv and we really dont rep much here so we can probably get a call from worse.

Thanks all. Appreciate the thoughts. I’m fairly confident 3betting pre was the right move because villain was opening 30% of hands from EP.

I think in hindsight I probably should’ve just c/folded flop and turn, because I think he actually does have a lot of trashy hands in his range that made a pair or a draw on this board, and I can’t really rep anything besides an overpair on the flop.

On river I still like my shove as played, but villain ended up flipping over 99 for the slow played set, which I didn’t see coming.

I could easily see a set play this way. Betting for protection on that board isn't that relevant since the 3-bettor really shouldn't have that many strong draws. (a handful of Ax or Kx club draws and maybe JT sometimes) And overpairs should very often bet themselves.

It's less about betting for protection, and more about the fact that if scare cards come, they'll kill your action. I think this is a pretty bad way to play a set, tbh.

What should UTG+1 think of your range when you 3-bet pre and then check flop?

Would UTG+1 expect you to have a lot of marginal made hands - i.e., weak 9x or 8x, 77 - in your 3-bet range that would check flop?

Would UTG+1 expect you to have really strong hands that you might be trapping and checking flop with?

Or would UTG+1 expect you to have a lot of air - overcards that missed the flop, for example?

If you had hands like overpairs and strong draws, wouldn't the UTG+1 expect you to be c-betting those?

My point is this - in the villain's position with 99 and facing a preflop 3-bet and then a flop check by you, as the villain I'm not sure I'd want to bet here. I would be much more inclined to see if you stab turn and/or improve on the turn with your air. I think with 55 for sure I'd probably bet, but maybe not with 88 and most likely not with 99.

Yeah he should never have a set here lol, rec players do love "trapping" with their strong hands though.

I think checking back IP with 88 or 99 on the flop is pretty bad dude. In addition to my air, I have plenty of weak one-pair hands in my range that I would rather check/call than bet/fold with. I'd even check/call with AK/AQ because I'm still ahead of a lot of draws in villain's range.

Any club, 6, or 7 on the turn and it becomes very hard to get a call with a weaker hand than a set. That's a lot more cards that kill villain's action than can improve my hand if I have air.

When a SB 3-bettor (betting over a UTG+1 open) checks the flop on this board, what range of hands should the UTG+1 think the SB has?

I'd like to chime in about ranges.

Pre flop:
Villian may be 30% opening EP, but it is deep in tournament and he has 28bb. In all likelihood, a half decent player will use their table image to their advantage later in tournaments. He may open any pair, but certainly isn't opening anything worse than KJs (which I'd say even KQs more likely). Given his propensity to fold to a 3bet, and ICM, you need to size the 3bet 7 to 8 bbs to make it a push/fold situation for him. You can 3bet/fold and still have 34/35bbs.

Additionally, and arguably more importantly, I happen to fear MPs flat pre more than EPs open... MP has you covered and you're OOP. MPs is not flatting LP or to close the action, so I'd still give him a pretty tight range and suspect he could be flatting to induce a raise, or simply have a suited A or AK/AQ and have you crushed. Sure, he will have the random suited connectors or pp that your 3bet may get to fold, but it isn't worth the risk at this point of the tournament. Therefore, I am simply tossing the KQos pre.

Just my opinion, but I'd prefer a range to 3bet here to be something like 9Ts, JTs, and 99+. This way if you get called, you can have some equity. KQ is just dominated too often in a position like this.

As played - ranges:
So villian flatted your 3bet, but he flats with about 19bb behind with 15bb or so in pot. He also flats with MP, who is table chip leader, still to act. Assuming villian had AK, JJ, QQ, KK or AA... what would he have done? Shoved to isolate. I think flatting with 88 through TT is pretty reasonable because he could fold if MP shoves. I don't think he shoves mid pp because he would be risking his stack vs two strong looking hands that cover him. Also, flatting allows him to act after the aggressor, and if a flop of Broadway comes, he could fold and still have 20bbs to play with.

Now if you agree with the range of his hand, and its more unlikely that he has JJ+, how would you play trips in his position? Well, you can effectively bet twice to get your entire stack in. The best way to do that would be to check back the flop because even a small bet on turn allows you to jam river.

Also, let's think about the ranges he is putting you on? Your small 3bet, OOP, against an EP open and mid flat (who is chip leader) seems to put you on AK or QQ+, maybe AQs. He will included the 8s + and some suited connectors, but I'd bet most people with TT, JJ ate definitely. KQos would be your absolute lowest range, but I'd never give that to you because the aforementioned ranges. You'd likely flat smaller pairs in hopes to stack vs MP. He wouldn't think you'd want to play a large pot OOP v chip leader this late in tournament without a very strong hand.

So from villains perspective, he wants to suck you in to betting. He has any over pair except TT crushed, as well as the missed AK or AQs. He wants the turn to help you. If you land your set, it's a cooler, but if he checks back flop, he is trapping you very well here.

As you stated, you realize you should check/fold any bets after the flop at this point.

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I basically answered this above, but since you need me to spell it out for you, mostly overcards + some weak one-pair hands that I prefer to c/call vs. b/fold .

I promise you that he was opening wider than that. When I say he was opening 30% from EP, I meant that he was opening 30% from EP at this table in this tournament over the course of the previous hour or so of play.


I think it's more likely that villain has a good but not great hand like AJs as opposed to a premium hand that he's trapping with. It's certainly a possibility, but I don't think a very high one.


I'd actually rather flat T9s or JTs since they play well multiway. I'd rather 3bet bluff something like KQo that plays better heads-up. I really think you're overestimating how often I'm up against a dominated hand here.



I mean villain obviously did think that way given the results, but I think it's based on bad logic.

If I'm the villain, I think the best way to get 2 streets of value is to bet while draws are still a big part of my range, which is on the flop. If I check back, I'm relying on villain to improve and for no scare cards to come, which rarely happens.

I'm not sure what weak one-pair hands a standard SB is going to have here. Is the SB really 3-betting T8 or 97 preflop very often? (plus the UTG+1 is blocking 9x with his hand already, which eliminates a lot of marginal hands) Maybe SB has exactly 77 or 66, but those aren't mortal locks to 3-bet an EP open in the first place. So there are very few marginal made hands SB should ever have here unless their 3-bet frequency is quite high.

With regards to overcards, I guess you could bet and hope that overcard combos like AQ/AK/AJ peel. But you would expect the SB in this spot to have some check/folds and 3-bets with no backdoor equity (i.e., overcards without straight draws or backdoor flushes) are often going to fold - and probably should fold - to a single bet. If as the UTG I think the SB 3-bettor is always going to check/call at least one street with all of their overcard combos then yeah, it makes sense to bet. But you'd also expect some of those bad overcard combos to bet themselves on the flop for equity denial and to balance out the strong hands in their range.

I also think the concern about scare cards is overrated, as clubs, a 6 or a 7 are a small part of what can come out and if I'm the UTG+1, I'm really not all that worried about them. In fact, a club would be a good card for the SB 3-bettor to bluff with if they want to take a stab on the turn, as hands with Ac or Kc can improve to having flush draws. And the UTG+1 shouldn't think you have a 6 or 7 very often based on your expected 3-bet range, nor should they expect you to have good club draws all that often as those would generally bet the flop.

The other point is that from a balance perspective, having a few nut hands in the UTG+1's checking range is good. You want some nut hands in your checking range.

That all being said, if you as the SB has a very high 3-bet frequency and a tendency to peel often, the UTG+1 should lean towards betting. But a standard rule, I would strongly lean towards checking with top set here in the UTG+1's shoes.

I think flop is a good spot to check/call with TT or JJ, no? QQ+ we feel pretty comfortable betting and getting it in, but I with a weaker pocket pair, I like a more passive line because I don't think we can call a raise. It also wouldn't be crazy IMO to be 3-betting light with A8/A9, although he does block A9 you're right.


I think we just fundamentally disagree about what the best lines are for the 3bettor's range, which is why we also disagree about the most likely response is to those lines.

Let's start from the top. Against someone opening 30% of hands, I can 3bet for value pretty wide here. The next questions is which hands to 3bet and which to flat. Hands like T8s and 77 that play well multiway are better to flat with. Meanwhile, hands like KQo and ATo, I prefer to 3bet because I'd rather play a heads-up pot with those hands. Against a tighter opening range, I would be concerned about being dominated with those hands, but again, because villain is so wide, that's not a big concern here. So our preflop 3betting range is strongly weighted towards broadways and strong pocket pairs.

So, with that established, this is a pretty terrible flop for our range. We still want to bet our top pocket pairs for value and protection, and we'll also want to bet our strong draws since they balance out our value range while still being strong enough to call a raise. That leaves our medium pocket pairs and our naked broadways to figure out what to do with.

I mentioned this above, but I'd rather check/call than bet TT/JJ. We risk giving a free card, but I expect villain to bluff most draws when checked to anyways, and we can probably induce some bluffs from weaker hands anyways. If we don't bet thin value hands like TT/JJ, I don't think we can bet many more of our naked broadway hands either because our range becomes too bluff-heavy so given we should probably check our broadways without a flush draw. Now if we c/fold all of these broadways, we're too exploitable for villain to bet with any 2 cards and take the pot down, so I think we can confidently c/call with a naked AK/AQ knowing that our range looks weak and villain will be betting a ton of air hoping to take it down.

So all of that is to say is that when I check flop, I should be check/calling at least some of the time.

The reason villain doesn't want a club/6/7 to come isn't that he's worried about me making a hand, it's that he doesn't want those cards to kill his action.