Hey all,

first post worth making an account to talk about. Need some opinions bc I haven't made up my mind about this, still in the tank almost 15 hrs later..

$11 Ignition tourney last night.

-Blinds 250k/500k.
-Hero on SB has about 15m, effective stack. Villain on button is in 2nd place with just a few more chips than me. Haven't played any hands with him as I just got table switched but he did just watch me scoop up a 10m pot 10 seconds ago. OTTH...

Folds around to villain, he raises it to 2.5m (5bb). I look at QQ so I 3bet to 6.5m (13bb). Villain instantly 4bet shoves his remaining ~13m (~25bb). Hero tanks and starts to feel a little nauseous. I can and probably will call off my stack here. I'm thinking if I win and I very well could, I'm in 1st place by around 30bb. If I lose, I'm done. Left shoulder is telling me to fold because it smells like KK or AA. Right shoulder is telling me that you should happily call bc folding the top 1% of your range is -EV long term. So back to the hand.. hero?

With 13 left I assuming the pay jumps are not that big, and it should be a snap even with ICM. I probably call here JJ+, AK.

You should have some 3!/folds. I don't see how this is one of them. At 30BB, you just can't raise fold QQ.

Not to be curt, but I don't see how this is even an issue.

It's going in. With 30bb's after already putting in close to half of our stack, with QQ, how can it not? If we run into AA or KK, so be it. Don't forget, this is an $11 MTT and although you'd expect the level of competency, this deep to be fairly high, you're still going to get the odd hail mary here with 88, AJ etc, so don't always just assign V's the top of their range, otherwise you will be looking for monsters under the bed, and that's when you start making mistakes.

We're not in the tournament to scrape into 9th, 8th or 7th - we want to win. That said, of course there are ICM implications, but I wouldn't of thought they'd be a factor in this spot, where the payjumps from here until around 6th shouldn't affect our decision making.

Rename thread ‘~30bb stack w 13 left, tough beat w QQ’ imo

I wouldn't be happy about the 5xBB open at this stage, and without reads would fold TT/AQ, but hard to fold QQ. Incidently, wrong forum, and maybe better answers to this sort of play in the right forum.

You can fold if you want the button is right there. You are giving up a lot and I’d never do it but if you’re feeling real confident that he never would shove worse than go for it and hero fold

Better answers? How on Earth do you tell someone different that folding QQ here after putting in nearly half their stack is anything but a no-no?

Cloud cuckoo land.

If V is open ultra ultra tight (TT+ AK at btn? really?) you cold call (pretty much almost never tight enough to warrant this)
If ICM is an issue you 3!Jam, otherwise you raise call.

You just butchered the hand when you raise but want to raise/fold here.

You have to shove with QQ against the raise. However, posters in the low stakes forum might be better at interpreting a 5x open with 13 players left.

It’s his $ he can fold if he wants

Without reads in an $11 MTT with 13 left against a 5x BTN open, I would probably shove JJ+/AK and fold everything else. If BTN was 5xing a lot, I would shove a lot lighter. If BTN opened standard size, I would have a much looser range with a mixture of calls, 3!/c and 3!/f. Obviously QQ would be a 3!/c.

You should never have to make this decision, the decision should have been made before you made the 3-bet. What I mean is this, you should be saying if this then that. If I 3 bet and he shoves I call, go ahead and make the raise. If I 3 bet and he shoves I fold, then you can't 3-bet. You need to call or shove (or fold but not ever here). It should never be, Oh No he shoved now what. What is the right play depends on a lot of info that we do not have, is V loose or tight, agro or passive? Do you want to win or ladder up? What are the other 11 stacks like? What are the pay jumps? This all plays into what is the correct play. Again a 3 bet fold is never to happen here

"Haven't played any hands with villain." And we are thinking of 3b/folding QQ sb vs btn for 30bb after 3-betting just under half our stack? This is a villain we have no reads on. He could be a maniac running 60/55 for the tourney and rock up with deuces here. This is a slam dunk call. We need 27% equity to call (17bb to win 62bb...that is 30+30+The BB+1bb in antes). Versus a range of TT+, AQs+ and Ako you have 53% equity. Even tighten villains range to AA,KK and all the combos of AK. We got 39.86%. CALL

Villain is 5x open raising from the BTN.

I either shove or fold. I would never 3-bet raise to 13bb which is >40% of our stack. That is a pot committing bet. For me anything over 30% would be pot committing.

Given that we have QQ I am always shoving here.

I expect that AK will always call. Maybe villain has AA/KK. Why on earth he would raise 5x with AA/KK beats me. But it can happen. Some live players who raise 5x do it repeatedly. I lost KK to A9o in a situation like this. But I think you actually have some FE here so Villain can fold.

My initial read on a 5x raise is that it is JJ (when I know nothing else about the player). Sometimes TT/99. And sometimes AK. But then I only play live.

There is no way I would 3-bet to 13bb and potentially play this out of position with one flop option. Imagine if an A or K comes and we are up against JJ or AK. What do you do? Are you always shoving? Never shoving? That is the spot where villain gets to play perfectly against you.

In fairness I lose with QQ all the time. I frequently 3-bet and get caught in no man's land. I have also laid it down (correctly) many times against AA. But not in a situation like this. Usually I open from UTG and somebody raises a lot and I can't go set mining.