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3-barreling after 3bet 3-barreling after 3bet

09-15-2017 , 02:12 AM
What do you think of selecting this hand for 3barrel bluff? Villain seemed decent, 32/24/15 folded 2/4 to 3bets. I think that eight of diamonds really hurts me, cosī it removes possibility of V having two those combo draws 89dd and 8Tdd that he is calling everytime on turn.

Party, $20 Buy-in (800/1,600 blinds, 160 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 43,013 (26.9 bb)
Hero (BB): 196,332 (122.7 bb)
MP: 38,202 (23.9 bb)
CO: 57,468 (35.9 bb)
BTN: 109,869 (68.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5 8
2 folds, BTN raises to 3,520, SB folds, Hero raises to 12,344, BTN calls 8,824

Flop: (26,288) J 7 A (2 players)
Hero bets 8,675, BTN calls 8,675

Turn: (43,638) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets 22,455, BTN calls 22,455

River: (88,548) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets 152,698 and is all-in,
Spoiler:
BTN calls 66,235 and is all-in

Results: 221,018 pot
Final Board: J 7 A 2 6
Hero showed 5 8 and lost (-109,869 net)
BTN showed A J and won 221,018 (111,149 net)
3-barreling after 3bet Quote
09-15-2017 , 11:51 AM
Pre is whatever - think 85s is fine as a defend or 3-bet. Bigger on flop, at least 13-14K.

When villain calls flop/calls turn, I just wonder if we'll get heroed too often with Ax when the draws brick. If there's ICM or pay jump considerations I can see this being good.
3-barreling after 3bet Quote
09-16-2017 , 05:41 AM
3bet more polar pre. 85s is a fine defend considering positions and antes.

Post flop you want to bet/bet/jam hands without diamonds. Card removal ends up being unfavourable for you here. That being said, people's fold by street looks like 45/40/50, so most river bets end up being very profitable anyway given the populations tendency to over fold.
3-barreling after 3bet Quote
09-16-2017 , 05:47 AM
I don't like the fact we have 2 diamonds. With the hand we have once he calls the turn I'm done unless I improve. I'd like a hand like KQ or KT with no diamonds a lot better to do this with.
3-barreling after 3bet Quote
09-16-2017 , 04:16 PM
river spot is interesting to discuss
but its funny there`re disagreements b4 river.

3betting is perfectly fine. At this depth we should prefer playability and barreling BDGSs only simplifies opponent`s strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro
Pre is whatever - think 85s is fine as a defend or 3-bet. Bigger on flop, at least 13-14K.
hmm.. I wonder why (even 100bb deep)?
70bb deep its perfect sizing.

On the river you have 8-high and 8 diamond isn`t worst one.
First you should give-up your K-highs at least so I think its ok unless you`re biggest spewtard on the planet
3-barreling after 3bet Quote
09-16-2017 , 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro
Bigger on flop, at least 13-14K.
Generally making it larger complicate things both for you and the opponent so you shouldn`t approach flop strat as template.
3-barreling after 3bet Quote
09-16-2017 , 08:52 PM
I think pre is fine, but I would 3b smaller, i think 3.1x is ok here

I would fire twice and give up on the river I think we getting looked up by Ax too often here, people generally dont fold top pair after def 3b in a btn to bb dynamic, they should usually fold pre if they going to fold post in 3b pot as its really exploitable
3-barreling after 3bet Quote
09-17-2017 , 05:39 AM
Flat pre and take the the 4/1, BTN calls nearly always and I don't like playing 58s OOP with an inflated pot.

I bet a little bigger on the flop and a little smaller on the turn and if give up on the river.
3-barreling after 3bet Quote
09-18-2017 , 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by user12345
Generally making it larger complicate things both for you and the opponent so you shouldn`t approach flop strat as template.
On boards that should be good for our range why wouldn't we want to bet somewhat larger, at least the size of our initial 3-bet? If I had a strong Ax hand or 2p+ I'd certainly want to be betting a size that gets value from worse Ax, Jx and draws. I think that 1/3 pot sizing is better on a drier board.

All that being said, I don't think a small bet is some big mistake, it's just not how I'd approach that board texture.
3-barreling after 3bet Quote
09-18-2017 , 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro
On boards that should be good for our range why wouldn't we want to bet somewhat larger, at least the size of our initial 3-bet?
Because this case you can`t bet whole range or close to it, you would have to develop checking range etc etc

I myself like this approach but I think majority dont.
3-barreling after 3bet Quote
09-19-2017 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
I don't like the fact we have 2 diamonds. With the hand we have once he calls the turn I'm done unless I improve. I'd like a hand like KQ or KT with no diamonds a lot better to do this with.
We have a FD and no SDV, we can put a lot of pressure on one pair hands and weak Ax.
And also, V still can have KT , QJ, T9 etc. that canīt call river obv.

OP...Otr, do you really overbet jamm AK,AQ for value?
A bet like 40K does the job done.
Pre i will always flat, nice hand to defend, unless V opens really wide and has high % fold to 3bet.

Last edited by OutPlayU27; 09-19-2017 at 10:18 AM. Reason: imo...
3-barreling after 3bet Quote
09-19-2017 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutPlayU27
OP...Otr, do you really overbet jamm AK,AQ for value?
A bet like 40K does the job done.
Pre i will always flat, nice hand to defend, unless V opens really wide and has high % fold to 3bet.
Itīs actually not an overbet, because opponent has 66k behind OTR and the pot is 88K.

Yes, I am betting AI OTR with AK/AQ, if I donīt do that, I will be too bluff heavy here. Also, preflop I usually flat w/58s on btn vs BB, but mixing it up like 10-20% of the time by 3betting.


I made a quick calc summing up the hand combinations V will likely have on this river:

Hands that V is calling with: (I put AK 4betting half of the time):
AJ 9 AK 6 AQ 12 A7s 3 77 3 JJ 3 A2s 3 all: 39 combinations

Hands that V is folding with:
AT 12 A9s 3 9Ts 1 KQs 1 KTs 1 KJs 1 QTs 1 QJs 1 JTs 1 J9s 1 all: 23 combinations

Under this assumption Villain is calling 63% of the time and folding 37% of the time. V gets pot odds of 2,34:1 (=30%) on the river.

So I guess figuring out what V will do with eg. AT is critical, because if he calls everytime with that, my bluff is superbad. IMO, AT is not a good
bluffcatcher since it blocks so many of my broadway bluff combos. Also, that 8d in my hand is doing some card removal with negative effect on my bluff.
3-barreling after 3bet Quote

      
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