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14 Left, 0 - Right Spot? Line? 14 Left, 0 - Right Spot? Line?

08-13-2020 , 12:04 PM
I think jam pre off this stack with this holding is absolutely +EV and everything else feels very much like fancy play syndrome.

There might be dynamics where limp or raise to induce are better but that's probably situation dependent - sometimes we can over-complicate these spots.
14 Left, 0 - Right Spot? Line? Quote
08-13-2020 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alay9
These are great and all (some not as great). I am very certain this is not a shove against this field. They’ll call with ATo, I don’t want a flip. I want the fulcrum on me. And with 11BBs I still have fold equity for the future.

But the real question I had is post-flop..

Would love thoughts there..?
POST FLOP:

I'm going with this hand if I cbet small here. After the preflop action we have 7225 left and the pot is 4200 + antes. If we bet less than 1/4 pot on flop (1000) and get jammed on, the pot is now 12,450 + antes and we have 6225 left. Our hand functions the same as QQ here; TT+ is 3! pre. We lose to a King obviously, but if there's a chance our opponent can jam with, say 7x, or A3 perhaps or some kind of BDS+FD we have to call, especially as you describe him as being loose/aggressive. It sucks, here we are. If we are going to play 99 passively (or any other hand) I prefer a limp so we have more options post flop as we keep SPR a little bigger.

Let's say we choose to check to our opponent - we need to decide why we are checking. Is it to check/jam? Check?fold? Or check/call? I wouldn't be check folding here; check calling allows villain to set his own price to see a turn card - if he has a hand like QT that's disastrous - and, let's say we check call, what are we doing on overcard turns? on blank turns? On a 7? If we continue to check to V he might just shut down and check back, giving him 2 cards for the price of his flop bet. So I prefer check/jamming here of these options.

Overall, I'd probably bet flop and call if I get jammed on, so we don't need to bet small as I'd be getting it in anyway.

We lose to Kx, 77 / 33 - but if V is as aggressive/loose as you say, he will be 3! a portion of his Kx pre and maybe 77. TT/JJ/QQ would definitely 3! pre, so like I said earlier, 99 functions the same as QQ on this texture, so, if you took this line with QQ, would you be folding that if you c-bet and got jammed on on this flop? Or if you checked to V and he bet?

Just my opinion, but this would be my approach to playing this hand post flop. The fact that post flop of this stack size with this exact holding gets a little murky is exactly why you should shove pre (although I'm sure you're by now aware of this an I get your reasons for not wanting to flip in a tournament where you have an edge).

Interesting spot post to consider, thanks for posting
14 Left, 0 - Right Spot? Line? Quote
08-13-2020 , 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveMTTer

Our hand functions the same as QQ here; TT+ is 3! pre.
Technically, at the described table, some people will not 3! some TT+.

Good post.

It is good to see that live poker is not dead, as two posters ITT are raise/folding 99 with 13xBB in HJ.
14 Left, 0 - Right Spot? Line? Quote
08-14-2020 , 07:14 AM
Lol. Absolutely nobody has said it’s a rf

This foolish arrogance and the general unwillingness ITT to entertain OP attempts to discuss non standard lines is a reason successful internet players underachieve in live low stakes MTTs
14 Left, 0 - Right Spot? Line? Quote
08-14-2020 , 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpnrun
Lol. Absolutely nobody has said it’s a rf

This foolish arrogance and the general unwillingness ITT to entertain OP attempts to discuss non standard lines is a reason successful internet players underachieve in live low stakes MTTs
It can be easy to run over live players late in MTTs who won't 3b much and r/f too much etc.
14 Left, 0 - Right Spot? Line? Quote
08-14-2020 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpnrun
Lol. Absolutely nobody has said it’s a rf

This foolish arrogance and the general unwillingness ITT to entertain OP attempts to discuss non standard lines is a reason successful internet players underachieve in live low stakes MTTs
OP: But the real question I had is post-flop..

Would love thoughts there..?

I've answered my thoughts post-flop.

I believe that shoving is the best option pre and means we don't have to raise/fold, and I'd be this hand off this stack in this position. I'm not saying I'm right, that's just my opinion.

I've thought about and given my opinion on OP's question on a situation I wouldn't find myself in as I'd be shoving 99; and it's been an interesting and enjoyable post.

IMO 99 is far to strong to be raise/folding - unless multiple players left to act all jam. If 1 of the 4 players behind shove I think we should call, but I get if they only ever raise when they have AA or we think we have a huge edge over the field then we could fold. But in general, if I raised 99 instead of shoving and got jammed on by one player, I'm calling. It sucks, which emphasises why open shoving 99 is the best play here IMO.

Would you be open/folding TT or JJ or AQ here? If you are open/folding hands as strong as 99 then you would be better off limping as you're min raise is like 1/6th of your stack.

And I'm not saying I'm right, or anybody else is wrong, it's just an opinion. I think I've outlined my logic for jamming rather than open/folding or open/calling it off above. Maybe nobody has said it's a raise/fold because it's not. Maybe you're unwilling to look at this hand from another POV other than your own.
14 Left, 0 - Right Spot? Line? Quote
08-14-2020 , 03:46 PM
Good post on post flop and I am not going to comment on that.

Open shoving and reshoving aggressively gives you a huge advantage late in a live MTT. It is possible many Internet players have major leaks in live MTTs, but that isn't one of them.

If people are 3-betting tight, you should consider just shoving QQ+, as they are calling pushes much lighter than they are 3-betting. If you want to induce by not pushing, limping might work better. Yes, you can raise AA and get people who would fold to a push to flat call. You should have a significant number of raise/folds, which makes you totally unbalanced, but it doesn't matter as they aren't 3-betting to exploit it.

From the BTN or SB, raising 99 is a reasonable play, as you are much further ahead of hands that might 3! or call light. In general, you should just shove all but the top and bottom of your range.
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