$125 PKO, preflop vs 4bet allin - MTT Poker Strategy - Multi Table Tournament Poker Forum

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$125 PKO, preflop vs 4bet allin

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10-05-2021 , 10:42 PM

DaTog

stranger

Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 4

Ignition - 1250/2500 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 14.93 BB
MP+1: 28.32 BB
Hero (MP+2): 42.76 BB
CO: 7.45 BB
BTN: 46.73 BB
SB: 22.44 BB
BB: 5.64 BB
UTG: 31.64 BB
UTG+1: 17.21 BB

9 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has Q

fold, UTG+1 raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 6 BB, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 4.54 BB and is all-in, UTG+1 raises to 17.11 BB and is all-in, Hero folds

Is this fold too tight? My logic was vs a UTG+1 minraise turned 4 bet allin over the top of a short stack allin that his range would be extremely tight and it was better to save my chips as I'd still cover all but 1 player at my table.

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10-06-2021 , 12:15 AM

AALegend

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 2,074

No, that was your opportunity for 2 bounties in a PKO and you have to go for it with a hand this strong and both villains <20bb.

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10-06-2021 , 12:17 AM

3for3poker

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,502

Unlikely to be a good fold with 2 bounties on the line. He is doing this 100% with a hand like TT, and might even push the pairs down (much) lower than that. It is good to cover the table precisely because you position yourself to win bounties, and here you can win 2 of them.

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10-06-2021 , 01:21 AM

DaTog

stranger

Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 4

Ok thanks. I thought his range would be much tighter than that. Will keep it in mind next time.

BB ended up showing KQo and UTG+1 had TJo.

Last edited by DaTog; 10-06-2021 at 01:39 AM. Reason: Included result.

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10-06-2021 , 03:30 AM

sabloid

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 490

Is this a fold without bounties?

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10-06-2021 , 09:30 AM

3for3poker

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,502

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabloid

Is this a fold without bounties?

Probably not. Unless we know the original Villain is super tight, we only need to call 11 to win 40 ish. Even a tight original Villain is getting his TT/JJ in here, and we do have some equity vs the bad hands of QQ/KK/AK

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10-06-2021 , 01:20 PM

ledn

MTTLivePro

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,106

You shouldn't really be 3bet/folding anything vs a 20bb open. Especially in a PKO. If your hand isn't good enough to play for stacks then just flat and see a flop.

You should be thrilled to play for 2 bounties with AQ here.

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10-06-2021 , 10:40 PM

DaTog

stranger

Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 4

Appreciate all the replies, apparently waaay too tight of a fold. I was initially planning to call the allin but then talked myself into a fold.

Definitely misjudged the range UTG+1 would be shoving with in this situation.

On to the next one!

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10-06-2021 , 11:07 PM

Mr Rick

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,062

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaTog

Appreciate all the replies, apparently waaay too tight of a fold. I was initially planning to call the allin but then talked myself into a fold.

Definitely misjudged the range UTG+1 would be shoving with in this situation.

On to the next one!

If you thought that with UTG+1's range you shouldn't call an all-in then don't 3-bet. Your raise to 6 bb's is roughly 33% of remaining effective stacks which should be pot committing pre-flop (as in your equity is going to be >33% vs his range).

I have for the most part stopped 3-betting with AQ vs UTG and UTG+1 opens. But here, I would have no problem isolating as long as I am willing to call the 4-bet shove.

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10-07-2021 , 02:30 AM

#10

2pairsof2s

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,608

I also tend to flat more and raise less with A/Q these days but here I would be hoping that utg1 would shove over my raise after bb calls off his short stack. Now I don't even have to win the hand to profit, the side pot will give me a bounty and grow my chipstack regardless, and I have to be ahead of at a lot of his range. My only worry would be that he is making it so obvious that he wants to isolate the all-in hand. I will sometimes overbet with a monster in a spot like he is in hoping that someone will call thinking I am trying to drive people out.

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10-07-2021 , 02:49 AM

#11

DaTog

stranger

Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 4

Agreed that I should not have 3bet if I wasn't prepared to call the allin. It was actually my plan to entice the shove, but I failed to consider what I'd do when a 3rd/4th player got involved. It led to me convincing myself that UTG+1 wouldn't make this play without a hand that has me in trouble and eventually into a fold.

I like the flat call if I'm not willing to shove as it only risks 2bb, and it might trigger a short stack into a desperate play that I can snap off with AQ if UTG+1 ends up folding instead of shoving.

Assuming its a relatively easy fold if I flat, bb goes allin and UTG+1 shoves over the top for 17 since it'd be a 15bb call instead of 11?

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