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10-19-2016 , 11:52 AM
£110 Tourney - 30min blinds. 15 places paid. £2700 up top (ca. 30 left)

Hero recently had 2 successive double ups (Shoved 88 and called by AK then Flopped straight w/ J9 and paid off by 2 Pair)

My image is fairly tight and I have called down villain on 3 streets in previous pot with TPGK. Hero; KJ / V; 79 - J224Tx

Villain is table CL and has been raising around 2x per orbit from EP/MP for the last 6-7 orbits. Cbet 100% and doesn't like to stop betting but hasn't paid off any raises so far. Last orbit had triple barrelled with AA on QT7XX board and got full value from QK and a few hands later triple barrelled with T9 on JQA 4 4 and got called down by AJ.

7 handed. Hero is BB with K5 (Stack - 78,000 Blinds - 1200/2400#

Villain #UTG - ca. 180,000# raises to 5000. Folds to SB who calls. Hero calls.

Flop - 4 3 T #Pot 16,400#

SB checks. Hero checks. Villain Bets 8000. SB folds. Hero Calls.

Turn - K #Pot 32,400#

Villain bets 10,000. Hero calls.

River - 4 #Pot 52,400)

Villain bets 22,000. Hero?

I know I missed a chance to C/R flop & Jam most turns but is calling ok OTF?
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10-19-2016 , 12:07 PM
Trivial call and nh.
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10-19-2016 , 04:58 PM
Yep
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10-23-2016 , 12:28 AM
I probably c/r shove on the flop. You have an overcard and BDSD. Also by calling you allow villain to make a large bet on the turn that could cause problems (like if a blank hits and he bets 20,000 you would have to consider folding).

Once the K hits on the turn you can't jam. He will only call with better and you have to suck out to win. Whereas calling the turn allows you to keep villain's range wide and you get to pick off a river bluff. His sizing on the turn looks like he has something like QQ/JJ/AT and he is blocking. Or he has the almost impossible KK.

River is a clear call.

Please tell us he didn't have A4...
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10-23-2016 , 12:55 AM
Fold pre your out of position with a hand that never makes money long term. His raising range has your weak king dominated. Calling the flop is bad you don't have correct calling odds for your flush and your king even if you make it puts you in a reverse implied odds spot. Calling the turn is bad because we could be dominated and have no clue weather our hand is good plus if he fires the river what s the plan? I would never check raise the flop it's a awful idea imo. Just fold these hands pre


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10-23-2016 , 01:15 AM
Call preflop is standard and good. I thnk check call flop is the play. You basically just have to check call down when you play your hand this way with a hand this strong as you rarely have better. As played I imagine you get to the river with a bunch of missed flushdraws some stubborn jx and the occasinoal rare slow played monster. Top pair is about as good as your going to have here and if im villain I'm tempted to 3 barrel this board as it looks like a better runout for the barreller than the caller. Sometimes he has you beat sometimes he doesn't but definately a call as played imo.
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10-23-2016 , 06:26 AM
Def call vs described V.
Nh.
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10-23-2016 , 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Pokerisfu
Fold pre your out of position with a hand that never makes money long term. His raising range has your weak king dominated. Calling the flop is bad you don't have correct calling odds for your flush and your king even if you make it puts you in a reverse implied odds spot. Calling the turn is bad because we could be dominated and have no clue weather our hand is good plus if he fires the river what s the plan? I would never check raise the flop it's a awful idea imo. Just fold these hands pre


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Maths to back this up?

Folding loses -110bb/100. Hard for flat to lose more than that given we have 35% equity vs a tight opening range of 66+,A8s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AQo+
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10-23-2016 , 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Pokerisfu
Fold pre your out of position with a hand that never makes money long term. His raising range has your weak king dominated. Calling the flop is bad you don't have correct calling odds for your flush and your king even if you make it puts you in a reverse implied odds spot. Calling the turn is bad because we could be dominated and have no clue weather our hand is good plus if he fires the river what s the plan? I would never check raise the flop it's a awful idea imo. Just fold these hands pre


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Do you even play?
And listen to gregz41 pls
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10-23-2016 , 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gregz41
Maths to back this up?



Folding loses -110bb/100. Hard for flat to lose more than that given we have 35% equity vs a tight opening range of 66+,A8s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AQo+


So your saying calling out of position with 35 percent equity is a good long term play?


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10-23-2016 , 06:23 PM
yep lol just abit of math man. Callin 1bb more to win the 6bb+ in the pot. You really don't need to have a great hand for the math to be leaning towards call

Last edited by ghostofdc13; 10-23-2016 at 06:31 PM.
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10-23-2016 , 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Pokerisfu
So your saying calling out of position with 35 percent equity is a good long term play?


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Missed that the SB is in the hand. I would call irrespective of whether the SB is in pot or not. But yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

Last edited by gregz41; 10-24-2016 at 02:59 AM.
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10-23-2016 , 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ghostofdc13
yep lol just abit of math man. Callin 1bb more to win the 6bb+ in the pot. You really don't need to have a great hand for the math to be leaning towards call


Well yea if your looking at math solely the call it's self is profitable But we have a hand that's so weak it makes are decisions so difficult. How often are we really going to get a flop that makes us feel like we're Definitely ahead. We're out of position and confused the positive thing about this hand is the price we got pre flop everything else is going to be tough I'd much rather have suited connectors in this spot and just fold k5.


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10-24-2016 , 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Pokerisfu
Well yea if your looking at math solely the call it's self is profitable But we have a hand that's so weak it makes are decisions so difficult. How often are we really going to get a flop that makes us feel like we're Definitely ahead. We're out of position and confused the positive thing about this hand is the price we got pre flop everything else is going to be tough I'd much rather have suited connectors in this spot and just fold k5.


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You need to improve your game from the BB. Your approach is weak by today's standards.
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10-24-2016 , 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by gregz41
You need to improve your game from the BB. Your approach is weak by today's standards.


Your right my blind play needs work any good articles/videos you know of?


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10-24-2016 , 08:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvQXA-kjvUs very basic summary of it. Runitonce.com good training site and I think alot of videos have been done about this. Pretty sure it was mat sklansky who wrote a book about this can't remember exactly. Tons of articles too man just try searching big blind defend strategies poker or something to that effect in google and im sure heaps of stuff will come up. Would reccomend only taking seriously the ones over the last 2 years or so as people were overfolding way too much in the earlier ones its generally accepted.
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10-24-2016 , 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ghostofdc13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvQXA-kjvUs very basic summary of it. Runitonce.com good training site and I think alot of videos have been done about this. Pretty sure it was mat sklansky who wrote a book about this can't remember exactly. Tons of articles too man just try searching big blind defend strategies poker or something to that effect in google and im sure heaps of stuff will come up. Would reccomend only taking seriously the ones over the last 2 years or so as people were overfolding way too much in the earlier ones its generally accepted.


Thanks bro


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10-25-2016 , 01:18 AM
np glgl
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10-25-2016 , 07:25 AM
Sorry no response; I've been away all weekend.

Thanks for everyone responding (My first ever thread so much appreciated!)

Villain in this hand turned over KQx after I convinced myself I had to call. I spent the next 45mins regretting the missed flop C/R but at the time I was planning to C/C flop and C/R safe (or gin) turns; the fact I hit TP just completely broke my plan and had me resigned to C/C the rest of the way.

The reason for C/C flop and C/R turn is to extract more value from my bluffs against a guy I know is prone to barrelling. Is this logic flawed? I.e trying to get 2 streets of value from a bluff I am confident will work a lot of the time?


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Originally Posted by Pokerisfu
Well yea if your looking at math solely the call it's self is profitable But we have a hand that's so weak it makes are decisions so difficult. How often are we really going to get a flop that makes us feel like we're Definitely ahead. We're out of position and confused the positive thing about this hand is the price we got pre flop everything else is going to be tough I'd much rather have suited connectors in this spot and just fold k5.
For the record; I am never folding K5s in this spot and likely would have called much worse hands to play back at Villain on plenty of flops - my intention wasn't to hit gin with K5s and fold when I miss!

Last edited by Abradolf_Lincler; 10-25-2016 at 07:31 AM.
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10-25-2016 , 01:02 PM
I wouldn't beat yourself up about check raising somewhere. It's results oriented. I think the hand was played well by both players. Sometimes you have to pay off the best hand, that's part of poker.
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