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02-28-2018 , 02:57 PM
#26
HawkesDave
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No, HRC gave you what it thinks hero should do, not determined what CO's range is here as the most active player. If you're going to make a counterpoint then at least make sure it applies to my statement.
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02-28-2018 , 03:04 PM
#27
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OutPlayU27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkesDave
No, HRC gave you what it thinks hero should do, not determined what CO's range is here as the most active player. If you're going to make a counterpoint then at least make sure it applies to my statement.
Ok fair enough, if we put CO a range like: 22+ A2s+ A5o+ K8s+ KTo+ Q9s+ QTo+ J9s+ JTo T8s+ 98s.
Hero should jamm 44+ A9s+ ATo+ KJs+ KQo ... don´t think CO is going wider givin ICM, like i said , unless his an idiot ,and even that, this range is still to wide, but ok i guess if everyone was playing tight/bad.
Also you should take in acount, that if V looses, will be the short stack, so another reason he souldn´t be opening really wide, since his priced in to call our shove.
Last edited by OutPlayU27; 02-28-2018 at 03:11 PM. Reason: i changed CO range in HRC since he had a tighter range, as he should...
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02-28-2018 , 03:15 PM
#28
HawkesDave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutPlayU27
Ok fair enough, if we put CO a range like: 22+ A2s+ A5o+ K8s+ KTo+ Q9s+ QTo+ J9s+ JTo T8s+ 98s.
Hero should jamm 44+ A9s+ ATo+ KJs+ KQo ... don´t think CO is going wider givin ICM, like i said , unless his an idiot ,and even that, this range is still to wide, but ok i guess if everyone was playing tight/bad.
Also you should take in acount, that if V looses, will be the short stack, so another reason he souldn´t be opening really wide, since his priced in to call our shove.
That's a fair argument, but also makes A4s a lot closer and not a punt. I'm ok with someone arguing lean fold but it's probably not a big deal whichever action you take, as mentioned already. It's pretty close.
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02-28-2018 , 10:11 PM
#29
SHIP_DAT
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It DOES matter what you do here, just either jam or fold. It's close, but flatting would be God awful.
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02-28-2018 , 11:20 PM
#30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutPlayU27
Math is math, also SB can shove any two on CO profitable and **** him ICM wise
Math is not math. The math is based on an assumption about villain's range. Whether any particular hand has a plus or minus depends entirely on what we assume villain might have. I'm not saying you are 100% wrong about your assumptions, although I disagree, but don't incorrectly say that "the math" is the last word.

The point about the SB still needing to act and he could shove to isolate is a fair point, but that will always be true whenever we're first to shove. If the original villain had folded would we fold our button in this spot because we're worried that the SB and BB are still to act?
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03-01-2018 , 02:23 AM
#31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGChapman
Math is not math. The math is based on an assumption about villain's range. Whether any particular hand has a plus or minus depends entirely on what we assume villain might have. I'm not saying you are 100% wrong about your assumptions, although I disagree, but don't incorrectly say that "the math" is the last word.



The point about the SB still needing to act and he could shove to isolate is a fair point, but that will always be true whenever we're first to shove. If the original villain had folded would we fold our button in this spot because we're worried that the SB and BB are still to act?


Lol...
The guys that are crushing today’s poker , will disagree with you ( I’m not one of those guys), but you get the point.
I mean I’m not gonna even bother explain myself anymore, so take it or leave it brother.



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03-01-2018 , 11:20 AM
#32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutPlayU27
Math is math
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGChapman
Math is not math.
I think this debate may have run it's course.
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03-01-2018 , 11:37 AM
#33
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hahahah
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03-01-2018 , 11:16 PM
#34
RiverDood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutPlayU27
Math is math, also SB can shove any two on CO profitable and **** him ICM wise, what´s so hard to understand?
I mean i just proved to you (HRC did actually) and things don´t make sense to you , ok then, move on guys
We have stats on the CO. He's the loosest player at the table. He's raising 33% of his hands. Yes against a normal or tight CO, there's no reason to pick a fight with A4s. But in this case, his range is as wide the Pacific Ocean. We aren't playing good poker if we fail to factor this in.
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03-02-2018 , 04:03 AM
#35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverDood
We have stats on the CO. He's the loosest player at the table. He's raising 33% of his hands. Yes against a normal or tight CO, there's no reason to pick a fight with A4s. But in this case, his range is as wide the Pacific Ocean. We aren't playing good poker if we fail to factor this in.


I doubt is even a +cEV shove.
We wanna have some FE when we 3bet jamm in this spot , which is not the case here, but I get it , I’m wrong and life goes on 109$ turbo 4 left


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03-02-2018 , 05:22 AM
#36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutPlayU27
I doubt is even a +cEV shove.
We wanna have some FE when we 3bet jamm in this spot , which is not the case here, but I get it , I’m wrong and life goes on 109$ turbo 4 left


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It is +cEV if he's opening 33%
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03-05-2018 , 10:28 AM
#37
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It is surely a close spot. Cant go wrong with both plays (f/j).
But one thing stands out, the fact that in one case, you are 100% sure to be alive next hand. To me, seems more valuable not to take such a close spot so I am still in and have relative f-e for the upcoming bvb battles.
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