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09-03-2020 , 06:02 AM
#1
maletaja81
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centurion
Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 177
situation is next sitting with UTG, have TT
10BB,8-handed

Bubble is near. smth like 200/215 or smth left
I folded and after 7 hands(almost full orbit) i made money 2x buy -in

I am not sure, certanly i get some +CEV by jamming tens, but risking ICM
Any thoughts?
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09-03-2020 , 09:21 AM
#2
ATRC
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stranger
Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 6
Well, on a ICM standpoint I would clearly fold,

but if the next level is close, you might end up with more or less 6/7BB and need to stack off with worse hands than TT and if you push and win without showdown you will have smthg like 13BB and then 8/9BB in few minutes...
So i would be tempted to push if you want to avoid the min cash and care less about being ITM.

you can also adjust your push decision by the stack size and the style of the players at your table. You "need to be sure" to play a flip in terms of PF ranges.

But I would fold I think.
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09-03-2020 , 11:22 AM
#3
Bubblebust
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adept
Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 830
You still have 200-215 players left? Other stacks are relevant. Without knowing stacks, I would jam all day and night with TT here and not worry too much about ICM. If we want to make a deep run we're going to have to double up a few times. You will get some calls from worse as TT crushes your jamming range.
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09-03-2020 , 11:36 AM
#4
maletaja81
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centurion
Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 177
actually other stack isnt important, because i know it takes about 1 orbit to reach money.
I just made some calculation, that mayby by shoving i win about 30% starting stack equity, which equals 30$ not much
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09-03-2020 , 11:40 AM
#5
Bubblebust
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adept
Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 830
You are on pure bubble? I read "i made money 2x buy -in" as meaning that you are already ITM. (BTW, what does that mean?) Even so, I still shove as we shouldn't be playing for min cash in most circumstances.
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09-03-2020 , 12:16 PM
#6
erc007's Avatar
erc007
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veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,227
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09-04-2020 , 01:50 PM
#7
3for3poker
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old hand
Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,502
You are leaving out some important factors:

1. What is the average stack in the tournament? If doubling makes you average, that is very different from doubling making you 1/2 average.

2. Stack of players at your table. If there are some stacks you cover at your table it makes shoving more attractive, especially if they are in the blinds.

3. Stack of the BB in particular. If they have 45BB, they might shrug call some hands with 2 overs, which is a pretty bad result for you. If they are shorter, shoving is more attractive.

Reasonably sure there is a fold, especially given how fast you made the $
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09-04-2020 , 03:20 PM
#8
maletaja81
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centurion
Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 177
I am little bit suprised. What is table and so on... comon we are year 2020 not 2000
we will get nash call, even tighter nash calls AQ+ JJ+ i expect. We dont need any "read".
We certanly wont get calls from BB A2o...lets gamble...or so...
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09-04-2020 , 03:38 PM
#9
mesmerized's Avatar
mesmerized
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help me decide
Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 946
Stacks are relevant- from the lobby not just ur table.

There could be 15 people on 1bb for all we know.

Personally i jam i dont play to min cash unluess this is a one off out of my buy in range. Then a double buy in return is ok.
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09-04-2020 , 06:10 PM
#10
3for3poker
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old hand
Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,502
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesmerized
Stacks are relevant- from the lobby not just ur table.

There could be 15 people on 1bb for all we know.

Personally i jam i dont play to min cash unluess this is a one off out of my buy in range. Then a double buy in return is ok.
If you don't play with ICM in mind, why are you even bothering to answer an ICM specific question? Obviously OP knows this is a jam for chip ev, he even said so.
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09-06-2020 , 04:41 PM
#11
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mesmerized
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help me decide
Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 946
You are correct i didn't see specific ICM question apologies.


But also i don't see how 15 players will drop in one orbit 9 hands ? when most short stacks will be folding to min cash unless some are sitting on 1 or 2 BB and forced in by the blinds.
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09-08-2020 , 01:07 AM
#12
deuceblocker
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Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 3,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by erc007
Stacks are relevant, but probably terrible play.
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