So, michelle227, that would seem to imply a sense of yours that the busts are over, and the other rooms will be left alone. Do you think that's the case, or is that wishful thinking as I think about going to Lions?

Probably wishful thinking although they may let these cases play out. If they win or get all the defendants to plead before going to trial(and they are able to then keep the confiscated funds) my guess is they will step up efforts to the shut these rooms down. However, if it goes to trial and the defendants win all bets are off. Either way, as a player you are safe in that they aren't looking to arrest any players and it is fairly likely they will wait these cases out before further action.

I have not looked at a map to see how many of the other clubs in/around Houston are actually inside of the City Limits. HPD does not have the jurisdiction outside of the city limit and Harris County SO does not seem to be that interested...and the Constables are more interested in busting the rub-and-tug massage parlors.

Quite honestly, as to where further prosecution might occur, I would have guessed Mint based upon some of the comments regarding practices in that building. I never played there as I don't feel like driving that far to play poker. But if the rumors are true that Eakman shut down, then the Webster PD may lose interest (some had indicated it was within Webster city limits). The DAO won't be sending their own investigators out to effect an arrest...

I don't know that the other rooms around the area really have the traffic to get the attention of the powers that be, even if they did manage to eventually get a conviction in any of the pending cases.

Something else that enters the equation is the drastic drain on manpower that cases like this can put upon the DAO. And Kim is scrambling as it is with a short staff...those here who frequent the courthouse know of what I speak.

I did here a rumbling that someone over there wasn't thrilled with the nuisance suit given that the actions spelled out as being conducted by HPD play directly into the belief of how rooms operated in the grey areas of the law. These things happen when agencies don't fully cooperate with each other...

So, a follow up question. Anyone care to weigh in on the games at Lions these days? If the raid scared off all the casual players, and it's just reg-on-reg violence ... meh.

I honestly think they're mediocre games but maybe I was spoiled by Mint. Mint had a revolving cast of hilariously bad fish, and I've never felt Prime/Post Oak games were ever that good typically. Lions seems to have inherited all the nits from Prime, but I've definitely had good tables at Lions sometimes. Talking about PLO obviously because who would ever play anything else...

I have $4800 in outstanding prime chips. Anyone care to join forces and start a class action suit?

You will gain nothing by doing so, for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is that your case will NOT be afforded any manner of priority. Further, even if you DID make it to a docket for a hearing, such a suit simply hastens the prospect of a corporate BK filing, which makes you a low priority for any manner of payout.

Too many people think litigation is the answer to all of their ails while often having precisely zero clue about how it functions (or how much it will cost). And speaking of costs, this is NOT a situation counsel is going to be willing to take on contingency, which means the litigants need to be prepared to front the costs and then HOPE that they prevailed AND that there were funds upon which the judgment amount would be paid out of.

Oh, and none of the civil matters are moving rapidly...after all, look at the in-fighting between Kebort and Chodrow that has been pending in Harris County, apparently related to some entity called Evrecom. I had not even been aware of that one until I saw the Order earlier this week directing that it NOT be transferred to the court where the nuisance suit is pending.

The lesson to be learned here is to NEVER allow an unregulated entity in ANY field hold funds and to NEVER keep funds in any manner of unregulated fashion (in this case, chips). As relates to poker in an unregulated area, ALWAYS buy-in upon arrival and ALWAYS cash out when leaving. When there is no regulation, there is no recourse when something goes sideways. It is just like the people that keep more in a bank account than the FDIC regulations will protect...if something happens, you get screwed and have to hope to see things work out favorably.

It is simply too early at this point to be threatening litigation. Admittedly, if I was holding Prime chips, my concern at the moment would be the fact that their personnel with pending charges do not seem to be lining up to get good attorneys. POPC, on the other hand, took steps to get one of the best attorneys in the State going to work for them...and as such, steps will more likely be taken to get POPC players paid sooner rather than later.

Michelle,

Do you have any idea when the cases would actually be tried if the defendants decide to take that route? If it does go to trial, will it be a jury trial?

Much will depend on which level of court they filed suit...if they elected to file in the Harris County courts, it could easily be a few years. After all, what seems to be a relatively simple suit between Kebort and one of the Chodrows was filed in March of last year and has had no hearings yet...next setting of any type is not until mid-July.

However, I could see a class action taking even longer precisely because of the other issues. A court could easily run with the premise that no action is ripe until such time as the other matters are resolved.

Further, as noted, filing suit makes it easier for the management to walk away by filing BK. Chip holders will get next to nothing if that occurs, and a payout likely still would not occur until after the criminal charges are disposed of.

An effort to gin up a federal suit would likely result in the a Motion to remove the case back to a local court since there really are no federal questions that likely could be raised (successfully) by players in a class action.

Filing suit will cost a player holding chips valued at $4800 far more than they might hope to recover. But, hey...maybe some like spending $10-15K to recover $5K

Patience is the far better course of action here...

On edit...if the question was dealing with the pending criminal charges, again the timeline will vary. When a defendant is out on bond, it is not much of a challenge to push cases multiple years. By example, a parole case I recently worked on saw the intoxication-related death occur in 2015 but a plea did not occur for more than three calendar years.

Jury trial is the option of the defendant in any criminal case. Where there are hyper-technical issues, it is entirely possible to lose a jury with the minutia. If you are relying upon nullification, then a jury becomes a better choice. But at the end of the day, I don't see the criminal cases ever seeing a trial setting.

but what about the people with safe deposit boxes? who is keeping them the club or the police, and if the club is keeping them, and opening them and emptying them, isnt that a new criminal charge? odd no one from 2+2 has admitted to having one, i thought they might have some.

Sorry, my original question was not clear. The second is the question I intended to ask. If the defendants actually want to proceed with a trial, how soon could it happen?

I would think the minutia issue would favor the defendants in this case and I think a lot of jurors would lean toward the personal freedom side of the issue. Trying to convince a judge of the legal minutia would seem like a harder road to me.

You can't make this stuff up. Freerolls is now free to play in other than their Security Access Fee. LMAO -


Our only fees (other than the $10 annual membership processing fee) are for the security controls, devices and protocols we have in place to give patrons a secure environment to relax in. We define the Security Access Fee as the following: 1. Presence of and access to professional security personnel. 2. Security cameras and recording devices. 3. Vehicle escort services. 4. Security locks and devices on all entry points. 5. Environment control and conditioning systems. As a member, one will be required to sign a disclaimer notice that advises the Security Access Fee is not being paid only the services above and not any of the activities or services that may be provided in the club.
Club Entry Processing Fee: $10
Security Access Hourly Rate: $15

https://freerollspokerclubs.com/membership/

Two of the clubs currently open are in Katy and thus outside the jurisdiction of both the HPD and the Harris County DA. The other currently open clubs that I am aware of are all in Houston.

It's always been a risk but to put it in perspective the clubs in the Dallas area were shut down way back in 2017 and clubs continued to operate across the rest of the state until this latest development in Houston.

A quick glance at the Facebook page of The River Poker Club at I-45 & Cypresswood in Spring indicates they are still operating, though they are in Harris County I believe they are outside of the City of Houston. Have never been so am not able to comment on the room.

The Dallas-area clubs were not 'shut down' by local officials. The owners of those clubs voluntarily ceased operation. No manner of court action was ever taken.

Also have never been there, but you are correct that them (along with Rounders) are in Spring. That is NOT within the jurisdiction of the Houston Police Department, although they are in Harris County. But unless the Sheriff's Department or the Constables in Precinct 4 take interest, nothing will happen there...

So the same would hold true for Mint Poker as they are not within the Houston City Limits but are within the Harris County line? Basically Sheriffs Dept or Webster PD would have to take interest for any action to occur?

Why do you keep insisting the Dallas area clubs shut down voluntarily...like they all decided at once to do something else. No, the local law enforcement did not come in with guns drawn, taking everyone away in handcuffs, and confiscating property. They all did receive a very clear letter to "cease and desist", or there would be further action. They evaluated the costs and risks, and decided to shut down to avoid the probable forced shutdown and public exposure. True, no court action was taken, but some local agency action was taken. BTW, in Dallas itself, there was one club that was raided with masked agents, so that was clearly not voluntary.

Correct.

In theory, the HCDAO investigators could effect the arrest, but you rarely see them as the arresting agency on perceived vice offenses. Where you are generally going to see them coming in as the arresting agency are the two comma white-collar offenses...

You said it yourself- they got a letter and chose to fold. That is solely on the owners and says nothing about whether the police department that sent the letter had correctly interpreted the law. As such, the Dallas closures has ZERO to do with State action. The State bluff-shoved all-in and the owners folded. Too bad for the Dallas-area players.

Which Dallas-area club using the membership model was 'raided?' I would have expected such an action to have generated a fair amount of discussion and yet I don't recall seeing any. And if it was an underground game being raked, then we are talking apples and oranges...

And, if there was a 'raid,' then I would expect to see prosecution having followed, again with a lot of discussion. After all, Dallas County has their documents online and viewable, even to the public. One need not even be an attorney to view the court filings in that jurisdiction...

DPD executes search warrant with guns drawn on the poker room and they weren't shut down. Whatever you say. I'm not going to argue about semantics.

According to news sources Dallas PD did come in guns drawn at CJ's.

How did the state bluff shove all in?

Perhaps, or perhaps it was in players best interest for these unregulated gambling establishments to go out of business. FTN Poker (McKinney Poker room) is alleged to have stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from area players through their PPPoker App. There have been issues with shady rooms in Houston too right? A kid got shot coming out of the room in Austin and it was an inside job by the poker room's security. Perhaps players in Texas are better off WITHOUT these unregulated "legal" poker rooms.

CJ's was raided and then the other decided to shut down BEFORE getting raided. As an example, Plano Police has gone on record saying that these establishments are clearly illegal. You think they wouldn't have raided rooms in Plano? You think they were just bluffing? LoL

There are few posters here that are regular Dallas players and thus there is little discussion of these things here.

Very simply, they sent a letter. The owners decided to cave.

As we will see in Harris County, the model will survive judicial scrutiny.

The mere fact that a police department asserts something is illegal does not mean that the act actually IS illegal. This holds just as true with poker as it does ANY OTHER issue for which an arrest is made.

I had an officer from the New Braunfels/San Marcos area a few years ago have to admit during a revocation hearing that the collapsible baton that he had arrested my client for was not, in fact, an illegal weapon. At the beginning of the hearing, he was adamant the client had broken the law. He had to make his mea culpa after he was handed a copy of the statute and asked to read it, aloud, into the record. In other words, the client had been arrested by an officer that clearly did NOT know the law. Not only did the revocation not occur, but the prosecutor quickly dismissed the misdemeanor offense. The client was inconvenienced by the arrest but has no conviction for a weapons offense.

So according to you, a mere "cease and desist" letter from local authorities is not real legal action, thus you call it 'caving' and 'voluntary'. I'm sure they weighed the upside along with risks and costs, and saw a formidable battle, and thus decided to close. I call that smart.

Its probably a matter of perspective - It's one thing to represent and advise a client from a legal perspective, and it's entirely different if it is your your money and reputation on the line. You could fight the whole thing till your broke, and still lose, and thus have nothing. I would move on the next opportunity like they all did.