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Old 11-07-2018, 11:18 PM   #1176
Texasholdemmike
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by BulltexasATM View Post
Some Htown updates:

Freerolls posted on FB that they are planning to open on November 15th. Will believe it when I see it.

Several new clubs opening:

Sam Houston which is Bill Heuer's new club near the horse track. Smaller than Post Oak but looks nice in photo's and is located on a golf course.

Star's Poker Club off Veteran's Memorial. On Poker Atlas.

Royal Social just popped up on Poker Atlas. Looks like it is off Gessner near the Westpark Tollway. Says it will have 10 tables and be opening soon.

Another new one planned to open in a few months off Westheimer (near Wilcrest W of Beltway). Met the owner and he is talking like it will be big, similar to Prime. Says his rate will be $10 an hour. Connected to a lot of PLO players so will be interesting to see if he can get some of the action to move there.

Many of the other clubs that have opened are dead with only 1 table a night running if they are lucky (Steelhouse, Poker Royals, Kings & Cards, Rounders etc).

Post Oak gets 2 to 3 tables of 1/3 NL daily and occasionally a 1/3 PLO. On Monday they host a private 10/20 ROE game and on Thursday's a 10/20 PLO game(open to anyone who signs up). Have been running at least 2 tables on Thursday and sometimes 3.

Prime is still dominating with 5 to 6 1/3 NL tables, a 5/5 NL, 15/30 ROE, 2 to 3 1/3 PLO, 2 to 3 5/5 PLO and at least one bigger PLO or NL game running daily.
Good update
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Old 11-09-2018, 12:18 PM   #1177
PapaDuckD
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Are there any rooms that are playing 1/2 or 1/3 capped as 300NL (or 500NL) and not max stack buyin which just ends up playing as 1000+NL?

The whole wife and kids thing gets in the way of me playing with all the money I earn. lol.
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Old 11-10-2018, 11:46 AM   #1178
Joee
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by PapaDuckD View Post
Are there any rooms that are playing 1/2 or 1/3 capped as 300NL (or 500NL) and not max stack buyin which just ends up playing as 1000+NL?

The whole wife and kids thing gets in the way of me playing with all the money I earn. lol.
TCH caps all their lower limit games.
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Old 11-11-2018, 04:13 PM   #1179
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

My viewpoint

The clubs are now embarking on doing things exactly like the underground games

Girls in scant clothing

Bonus chips in tournaments if you play cash (horrible idea for what tournament gives you extra chips for ANY REASON in the professional world - this is a whole new topic but suffice it to say that it will just end turning off the tournament players)

Multiple day 1s to tournaments just to make the guarantees - I understand this if we are talking substantial 100s of thousand of dollars but not for sub 15k tournies)

Price cutting to the point (advantage to the players yipppee) but long run eventually something has to give - the clubs can only make money through these charges and will eventually it will just not make economic sense - another point is that once you cut a price - the players won't tolerate a price increase - this was the rise of the bulk discount stores and transformed the consumer psyche to just wait for these sales and not shop during other times)

I think we will see more and more clubs only certain days and certain times - the number of players going broke esp in the PLO games is reaching higher and higher numbers - the players from the BIGGEST clubs are now migrating to the smaller clubs and completely decimating their player pools.

We are now heading into the DEAD SEASON for poker...it ranges from Thanksgiving to about mid January with people saving for the holidays - going on vacations - etc...

Once these 3 months are done we will see who is still standing...in the past week and next 2 week about 5 or 6 brand new MEGA clubs will be opening up....stay tuned and lets see what happens.
Some of the worst starting stacks (under 100bbs) making them pure push fests - which I would understand if it was $20 and under tournies but I have seen it in $100+ tournies - I have even see tournaments that run with 3 players...wtf

In short this is turning more and more into a survival of the most desperate and will result in thinning the field more quickly than i first projected
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Old 11-13-2018, 04:10 PM   #1180
michelle227
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

What is the objection to eye candy? Granted, with the weather this week, it may not be THAT scantily clad...

You played the harbinger of doom about this time last year...nobody is 'going broke' in the volumes you assert. Some might have their hobby funds drop until their next paycheck, but remember that for MANY of those in every one of the rooms, this IS, and will always remain, a hobby. It is like golf...some may always have a few thousand on them as 'just in case' funds while others need to wait for next week's check to go enjoy their hobby again.

Oh, and bonus chips are not unique to the local clubs...they have been known to exist even in licensed establishments in places like Louisiana and Nevada. While they may not be common, they certainly exist, especially on the cheezburger stakes events (which would be a number of the double-digit entry fee events that draw the same levels of crowd, which is to say minimal).

This reeks of fear-mongering and sabre-rattling in an effort to get home games up and running again that rake more off the table than is reasonably profitable for anyone OTHER than the host...
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Old 11-13-2018, 04:58 PM   #1181
dgis back
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by michelle227 View Post
What is the objection to eye candy? Granted, with the weather this week, it may not be THAT scantily clad...

You played the harbinger of doom about this time last year...nobody is 'going broke' in the volumes you assert. Some might have their hobby funds drop until their next paycheck, but remember that for MANY of those in every one of the rooms, this IS, and will always remain, a hobby. It is like golf...some may always have a few thousand on them as 'just in case' funds while others need to wait for next week's check to go enjoy their hobby again.

Oh, and bonus chips are not unique to the local clubs...they have been known to exist even in licensed establishments in places like Louisiana and Nevada. While they may not be common, they certainly exist, especially on the cheezburger stakes events (which would be a number of the double-digit entry fee events that draw the same levels of crowd, which is to say minimal).

This reeks of fear-mongering and sabre-rattling in an effort to get home games up and running again that rake more off the table than is reasonably profitable for anyone OTHER than the host...
Good post Michelle. Yep some of the "former underground game runners" are still hoping and praying that these places go away. Doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon. That place called Prime Social is going bonkers. Went there last night and the place was packed on a Monday night. Guess those "Clive bucks" are going to have to remain in storage for a bit longer yet
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:35 PM   #1182
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

we will see in a year how much of this is prophetic...so far yes prime is doing well...but they are the exception and not the rule

I know by talking to places that are NOT PRIME - they are struggling to keep a table running and more and more often you are seeing owners playing to keep the table running which to me is a big no no

Again - I have never had poker bring more than 5% of my income - so it is not affecting me financially so that is not coloring my analysis as my "wish"

Lets look again in 6 months and 1 year and time will tell the story.

With poker atlas as the industry standard one can easily see the true numbers and I don't rely on word of mouth
Mint poker who used to have at least 6 tables running almost 18 hrs per day is now at 2-3 tables running
Post oak who at one time had 10 tables running almost every evening - is now at 2-3 tables consistantly

Only prime and lion's club have not seen dips in their patronage - I have played Prime and though I have made a profit - it took a larger bankroll than any 1/3 game that I am used to and at $15/hr one could not play more than 5 hrs before you started to realize that the drag on your profit was being eaten up.

Finally in the last week approx 6 new places should be opening up
One is Freerolls - which was open before but closed down because the location was not profitable and now moving to the katy area
One is another club is a branch of Post Oak
The other 3 or 4 are brand new clubs - none of which are in the "poker corridor" of Richmond/Westheimer but outside the 610 loop

We shall see if they drain players away from the current clubs or will bring more players from the outlying areas.

Last edited by clivestraddle; 11-13-2018 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:54 PM   #1183
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Its not just here that the whole venue of poker but gambling in general that things are looking bleak - all casino stocks are down - tilman has approached Caesars for a merger as they come out of bankrupcy - by merging you are reducing the number of casinos this is never good for the players for it takes another competitor out of the market - take a look at any casino stock and you will see they are at 52 week lows

The recent main event at Chocktaw was down in attendance for the 3rd years in a row - 960 last year and 870 this year as more and more tours are "stepping on each other's toes" in scheduling events - something they did not do in the past - now they are fighting for an ever shrinking pool of players and will do anything to put the less profitable tours out of business.

So this analysis is not just confined to the Houston market but symptomatic industry wide that the poker boom is fizzling out as there are just not new fish coming into the market to keep those of us that played for the last 2-4 decades to "feast upon"...without new blood the games will get tougher and tougher and in time it will become less and less attractive to play.

Last point..when i see tournaments being run with 3 players - $100 buy-in / no GTD on several occassions or tournaments that are scheduled and fail almost 60% of the time - then one does begin to get the impression that the hordes are not as strong as they were a year ago.

I would like you to quote this trend after we see when (as i have seen) the slow down from Thanksgiving to approx mid Jan and pick up where this market is from the period of Feb - beginning of June next year.

Last edited by clivestraddle; 11-13-2018 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:47 AM   #1184
BulltexasATM
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by clivestraddle View Post
we will see in a year how much of this is prophetic...so far yes prime is doing well...but they are the exception and not the rule This is no different than most of the underground rooms most of which struggled to get or had just one table running.

I know by talking to places that are NOT PRIME - they are struggling to keep a table running and more and more often you are seeing owners playing to keep the table running which to me is a big no no Come on man, you played in your game all the time and every place I played at the game runners played in the game. Very common.

Again - I have never had poker bring more than 5% of my income - so it is not affecting me financially so that is not coloring my analysis as my "wish"

Lets look again in 6 months and 1 year and time will tell the story. As long as there is no regulatory change you will see one or two clubs thriving and the rest with 1 or 2 tables per night. This has been standard in Houston for decades with the underground rooms.

With poker atlas as the industry standard one can easily see the true numbers and I don't rely on word of mouth Exactly and there are more tables running in Htown than at any time in the past 10 years (most of which are at Prime)
Mint poker who used to have at least 6 tables running almost 18 hrs per day is now at 2-3 tables running The reason for this is that there is a lot more competition now. Lots of players at Prime playing that told me they use to play daily at MINT. Also there are new clubs in Clear Lake and Galveston that have taken some of their players. Post oak who at one time had 10 tables running almost every evening - is now at 2-3 tables consistently That was due to Bill Heuer and their team taking the players for granted. Won't go into why again but their stupidity cost them. Once the players moved to Prime they couldn't get them back.
Only prime and lion's club have not seen dips in their patronage - I have played Prime and though I have made a profit - it took a larger bankroll than any 1/3 game that I am used to and at $15/hr one could not play more than 5 hrs before you started to realize that the drag on your profit was being eaten up. It's actually $16 an hour but games are so good any good player should be profiting. I did just see they are now promoting a 1/2 NL game on Tuesdays with a $300 max buy in. Possibly that is more your style at this point in your poker playing career. They do offer a pretty good rake back program as well if you play at least 20 hours a week.
Finally in the last week approx 6 new places should be opening up
One is Freerolls - which was open before but closed down because the location was not profitable and now moving to the katy area
One is another club is a branch of Post Oak
The other 3 or 4 are brand new clubs - none of which are in the "poker corridor" of Richmond/Westheimer but outside the 610 loop. Most of these won't survive or will end up running 1 table a night. I agree with you on that point.
We shall see if they drain players away from the current clubs or will bring more players from the outlying areas.
Probably a little of both.

Last edited by BulltexasATM; 11-14-2018 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:53 AM   #1185
BulltexasATM
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by clivestraddle View Post
Its not just here that the whole venue of poker but gambling in general that things are looking bleak - all casino stocks are down - tilman has approached Caesars for a merger as they come out of bankrupcy - by merging you are reducing the number of casinos this is never good for the players for it takes another competitor out of the market - take a look at any casino stock and you will see they are at 52 week lows. This has nothing to do with poker though.

The recent main event at Chocktaw was down in attendance for the 3rd years in a row - 960 last year and 870 this year as more and more tours are "stepping on each other's toes" in scheduling events - something they did not do in the past - now they are fighting for an ever shrinking pool of players and will do anything to put the less profitable tours out of business. I also think all the clubs running in San Antonio, Austin and Houston have hurt Choctaw. Why drive North of Dallas when the games are so good where those players live.

So this analysis is not just confined to the Houston market but symptomatic industry wide that the poker boom is fizzling out as there are just not new fish coming into the market to keep those of us that played for the last 2-4 decades to "feast upon"...without new blood the games will get tougher and tougher and in time it will become less and less attractive to play. This has been going on for 10 years or so and in particular since Black Friday. However, the strong will survive and lots of money in Houston.

Last point..when i see tournaments being run with 3 players - $100 buy-in / no GTD on several occassions or tournaments that are scheduled and fail almost 60% of the time - then one does begin to get the impression that the hordes are not as strong as they were a year ago. All these places are trying to run nightly tournaments. Just not enough players to go around. Another point I agree on with you.

I would like you to quote this trend after we see when (as i have seen) the slow down from Thanksgiving to approx mid Jan and pick up where this market is from the period of Feb - beginning of June next year.
Nothing will change as far as having 1 or 2 "big" clubs where most of the action is and a lot of other places that get at most 1 or 2 tables going a day. Other than a regulation change happening these places are here to stay.
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Old Yesterday, 05:56 AM   #1186
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

For the most part bull - we see eye to eye on most of the issues and predictions
You do bring some points I had not thought of - the texas influence on Chocktaw

A lot has changed in 20 years - in many ways the rooms are a vast improvement over the over-raked games - for me the timing could not be more perfect for at 60 I had the opportunity to not only host and meet so many great people in Houston but also I only wished to run a few games a week as entertainment - I have taken on other projects at this point.

Everything in life runs in cycles - bridge / backgammon / chess / poker each had about a 20 yr cycle of BOOM - I truly believe that poker has put its best days behind itself but no matter what happens people will get together with friends to play this game - It has been popular in American for over 100 yrs (the wild west) and probably will always be considered "American's game" for many years to come.
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