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Old 07-23-2018, 04:37 PM   #1026
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Then explain why the fire marshal "suddenly" showed up at babaloo? (former partner of post oak)
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Old 07-23-2018, 04:42 PM   #1027
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearlessPhil View Post
I suspect this is just another ploy to get a judge to issue a decision on whether or not these places are legal. This particular suit is probably even better than the Austin/San Antonio one. Based on the description posted earlier, the judge is being asked to decide whether or not a certificate is required to operate one of these places. If the judge decides that it is, then the clubs that have one will have been declared to be operating legally and the other ones will simply have to get one to be legal. If the judge decides that no certificate is necessary then all of the clubs have been judged to be legal.

I'm sure it's not quite that simple but either of those decisions would certainly be a win for the poker clubs and the players.
i want to hear michelle's opinion on this - i don't agree with your analysis
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Old 07-23-2018, 05:14 PM   #1028
iamthepush
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by HTwnPokerGuy View Post
I don't know who I feel more sorry for...these clueless Prime guys or that poor kid that bought a "franchise" from Michael Eakman.
I started this thread today and am at this post, and I must say that HTwnPokerGuy is knocking it out of the park so far, LOL
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:40 PM   #1029
TxBuckeye1963
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by BulltexasATM View Post
San Antonio report - there are at least 5 membership model card rooms in San Antonio. It appears 2 dominate the action. The two on Poker Atlas both didn’t have any tables going last night when I checked(AJ’s and Rounders). Alamo City Card House and SA Card House have the most action.
Has anyone in the SA area played the Alamo Card House recently? Admittedly I didn't even realize these things existed around here. At first I thought a $35 daily fee sounded ridiculous. But then I thought about rake, or the cost of going to Lake Charles or Vegas and paying for a room and I realized, that ain't bad. But I have no clue what sort of folks to expect or how the play is. Was hoping maybe someone had a review on the place more recent than one from mid-last year? TIA.
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:32 PM   #1030
HTwnPokerGuy
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by iamthepush View Post
I started this thread today and am at this post, and I must say that HTwnPokerGuy is knocking it out of the park so far, LOL
Whatever happened to that franchise kid?
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:05 PM   #1031
iamthepush
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by HTwnPokerGuy View Post
Whatever happened to that franchise kid?
Are you asking about someone named "franchise kid"?

Or did you mean to write " Whatever happened to that franchise, kid?"

Either way I think you're confusing me with someone else.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:13 PM   #1032
GtownAce
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Im sure Eakman took his money and said good luck LOL.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:21 PM   #1033
BulltexasATM
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Clive, you are going to like this! “You were right!” It was the same old, same old report and interview was w West Poker owners.

Lawsuit between Post Oak/Prime wasn’t covered but possibly someone (Michelle) can track down the filing and Post the pertinent details here.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:18 AM   #1034
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

lol....i have always been right....

except this time....i thought i was wrong......

but i was right

that being said - i really can't see how someone can sue someone for not following the law - my feeling is that you can report it and let the authorities take it from there

Now - if the law is applied unfairly - then (I think) you can sue the agency

Maybe I'm missing a point
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:39 AM   #1035
FearlessPhil
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by BulltexasATM View Post
Clive, you are going to like this! “You were right!” It was the same old, same old report and interview was w West Poker owners.

Lawsuit between Post Oak/Prime wasn’t covered but possibly someone (Michelle) can track down the filing and Post the pertinent details here.
It may be old news to the people on this list but it is new information for the vast majority of their viewers. They presented a very positive picture of the activity and I suspect it will also boost membership.
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:45 AM   #1036
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Let's put it in perspective from a marketing point (the news) - these rooms are now pushing for radio ads - and therefore are marketing dollars to be spent.

In addition who is going to take an interview on a hostile tone of "why are you doing this when it is currently not legal" debate with the interviewer.

The whole thing comes down to - is the model sustainable - how many customers are there in this market?
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:49 PM   #1037
BulltexasATM
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Here is some info re: the lawsuit Post Oak filed - http://www.dolcefino.com/blog/2018/0...thers-jealous/

This is the best line - “If the allegation is that we hire attractive women and have better food and a great place for folks to enjoy their favorite game, then I confess,” says Prime Social founder Dean Maddox.
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:00 PM   #1038
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

wow...i love it
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Old 07-24-2018, 05:33 PM   #1039
pokermon!
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by BulltexasATM View Post
Here is some info re: the lawsuit Post Oak filed - http://www.dolcefino.com/blog/2018/0...thers-jealous/

This is the best line - “If the allegation is that we hire attractive women and have better food and a great place for folks to enjoy their favorite game, then I confess,” says Prime Social founder Dean Maddox.
lol. love that line.

Is anyone still planning on playing the 1k deepstacks event at FreeRolls in katy?

I'd probably still play it as long as they honor the seats they gave away/sold from their original location. Usually don't like trusting a group who seems to have shaky financials with a large prizepool though...
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:09 PM   #1040
GtownAce
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

No word on new location other than in Katy. Would not shock me if this WPT event never happens considering who owns freerolls. The way they shut down with no warning is puzzling and actually the 50 or 60 plus who won seats shouldnt be surprised if the event never happens.
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Old 07-25-2018, 07:55 AM   #1041
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

On their home page on FB they stated there would be an announcement this week
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Old 07-25-2018, 11:21 AM   #1042
vaz
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

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Originally Posted by clivestraddle View Post
The whole thing comes down to - is the model sustainable - how many customers are there in this market?
For cash games, Yes. I think you can make the case that the current membership/time charge is close to equally the rake you could expect at many casinos.

For tournaments, No. Especially for lower buy-in tournaments, the time charge ends up being much higher than the typical casino tournament charge. Only large buy-in tournaments might get close to being equal.
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Old 07-25-2018, 11:33 AM   #1043
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

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For cash games, Yes. I think you can make the case that the current membership/time charge is close to equally the rake you could expect at many casinos.

For tournaments, No. Especially for lower buy-in tournaments, the time charge ends up being much higher than the typical casino tournament charge. Only large buy-in tournaments might get close to being equal.
The reason i say it is unsustainable is as follows

take all the rooms that are houston...approx 20....
on a given night you will see
10-12 tables at prime
2-5 at post oak
and a smattering of 1-3 at the others..lets say 1.5 on all the others
so we are looking at 50 tables running across all the clubs

that 500 people...and houston has a population of 2.6 million
lets even double that number for in and out people 1k of 2.6 million kinda sums up the number of people that are attracted to these places ..

poker is by and large become a very niche game after 2009-2011
its not growing in the casino world and this is widely represented in these numbers

This "experiment" is about 1 yr old and already we are seeing cracks in the concrete of the sustainability issue - bickering and break ups of ownerships - branch offs of partnerships when the club does not make the money they were when they first went in biz...

Having hosted 20 yrs - I have seen my fair share of ups and downs and seen a decline in the past 5 yrs that does not take a Nobel laureate in economics to see the overall decline.
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Old 07-25-2018, 04:30 PM   #1044
michelle227
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by clivestraddle View Post
i want to hear michelle's opinion on this - i don't agree with your analysis
Have not looked at the local suit. Just got back from another four days in Vegas, this time property-hunting. And, back to a buried desk...

I presume the Prime/POPC suit is in Harris County, which will mean it is viewable on the District Clerk's website.

I've opined previously on the suit in Travis but have not followed up to see if there are any recent pleadings beyond initial filings.
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:10 AM   #1045
GtownAce
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

so are players really boycotting the PO tournament series? Ive heard from pkayers on tables saying that people arent going
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:17 AM   #1046
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

PO is putting out a blast for dealers - this is not a good sign if they are not being able to pull from their own pool

Topped off with the heavy vig and other venues starting to put together big tournies...its putting pressure out there
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:25 AM   #1047
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

honestly..i would like to see MASSIVE tournaments come to houston but the rooms are looking at the "short game" of profitability" rather than bringing excitement of drawing out of state plaeyrs - this is my opinion and only hopes that the owners of club realize the long game is the best game
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Old 07-26-2018, 05:22 PM   #1048
michelle227
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Having now looked at the Harris County pleadings (Cause #2018-47049 for those so interested), I don't see relief being granted at the Show Cause hearing (was set for July 27 but now moved to August 02 due to attorney vacation- yes this is a real basis to reschedule hearings).

The poaching of employees is perfectly acceptable in the absence of any sort of non-compete agreements. If KHC d/b/a POPC did not try to lock their employees down, then shame on them. As to the assertion that opening in the same general area and also, *gasp* offering food and other amenities being some manner of profiting off of 'goodwill' and other efforts into creating the model, I don't see that succeeding either.

ANY competent operator of a poker room should be taking steps to have food available and going into a former restaurant location would be a prudent business decision since the facilities are already there.

Some manner of damages might exist if it can be proven that BSC d/b/a PSC was sending people in to deliberate bad mouth POPC, but that would seem to be more of an issue of wanting the cake and eating it too. After all, if you let someone pay to enter and to play, all the while talking trash about your place and you DON'T take steps to bounce them, then I am hard-pressed to accept that you were harmed by such actions. If you believed a harm existed, you kick them out with a refund of the hourly and maybe even daily fee.

The model in use by POPC is not unique to POPC. It has been discussed on this very forum for a long time and was in use in Austin and other locales long before POPC opened. It is not a trade secret that existed only for the benefit of one party and one party only.

Where things COULD get interesting in the hearing is if the Court decides it wants briefings on the game room license issue. POPC could very well have opened a can of worms here that has the unintended consequences that NO poker player desires...ironically, the crux of THIS argument about Prime seems to be a page straight out of the SIGH website.

This is all just based on a cursory glance at what is about 50 pages of docs from the Clerk's website. It is not a detailed opinion nor have I looked at any of the law specific to this dispute. Civil is not my area of expertise...Texas parole and corrections is where my experience rests and where I am recognized as an expert witness by the Courts.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:49 PM   #1049
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

from the founder himself - FREEROLLS

https://www.facebook.com/trenttdanie...ONKV4U&fref=nf
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:28 PM   #1050
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

I have tried to visit as many of these new clubs as i can..and basically they come down to 4 types (some have qualities of 2 or more)

a - the "hobbing and snobbing"
b - the "casino style"
c - the "home game" and
d - the "bar game"

Each has its own style and format - find the one you like because you enjoy the company and the game will take care of itself
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