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Old 07-08-2018, 10:26 AM   #976
michelle227
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Just as an FYI for those who wanted to review the documents directly...the SIGH idiots could not even be bothered to properly provide the Cause Number. Travis County cases include a year in the number. As such, the CORRECT Cause # is D1-GN-18-003272.

The original Petition was filed on June 29th and the Citation for Service was issued on July 2nd.

The case is indicated as having been filed as an Injunction.

Having reviewed the Original Petition and Application for Permanent Injunction, I can easily envision this being served, bounced around on the docket for a handful of settings and then kicked on a jurisdictional question. The actions claimed in the Petition are occurring in Bexar County. As such, a Travis County judge will have difficulties in agreeing that they have the legal authority to issue an injunction for conduct that has not occurred within the jurisdictional boundaries of Travis County. It matters not that San Antonio is, indeed, just a short drive from Austin. Especially given that there is another County sitting between them...actually more, but the number will depend on the route driven.

Where things get interesting is in the assertions related to the use of "Card House" in the name. I see this being something that could actually get traction in a removal to a different Court using some of the same arguments as existed in the recent Bucee's decision about trademark infringements...

The judge is far from stupid...she did her undergrad at Yale and then got her law degree from THE University of Texas at Austin. You can read more about her at http://www.jansoifer.com/about/ if you are so inclined.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:19 AM   #977
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

someone brought up a really interesting point...

now that freerolls closed and is supposed to have the WPT even at their new location - which is not opening for months

two major events are coming to Houston
Card player tour and WPT deep stack

these will be key for attracting other tour stops

if they are successful and go off without a hitch this will be great for business
but if there are any issues or they don't draw the crowd - this will probably prevent others from coming to houston

time will tell - supposedly freerolls gave away about 60 $1k seats to the WPT event
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:55 PM   #978
tangram16
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227 View Post
Just as an FYI for those who wanted to review the documents directly...the SIGH idiots could not even be bothered to properly provide the Cause Number. Travis County cases include a year in the number. As such, the CORRECT Cause # is D1-GN-18-003272.

The original Petition was filed on June 29th and the Citation for Service was issued on July 2nd.

The case is indicated as having been filed as an Injunction.

Having reviewed the Original Petition and Application for Permanent Injunction, I can easily envision this being served, bounced around on the docket for a handful of settings and then kicked on a jurisdictional question. The actions claimed in the Petition are occurring in Bexar County. As such, a Travis County judge will have difficulties in agreeing that they have the legal authority to issue an injunction for conduct that has not occurred within the jurisdictional boundaries of Travis County. It matters not that San Antonio is, indeed, just a short drive from Austin. Especially given that there is another County sitting between them...actually more, but the number will depend on the route driven.

Where things get interesting is in the assertions related to the use of "Card House" in the name. I see this being something that could actually get traction in a removal to a different Court using some of the same arguments as existed in the recent Bucee's decision about trademark infringements...

The judge is far from stupid...she did her undergrad at Yale and then got her law degree from THE University of Texas at Austin. You can read more about her at http://www.jansoifer.com/about/ if you are so inclined.
Assuming a far from stupid judge, this case should be dismissed for jurisdictional reasons on motion, or perhaps even by the judge's own motion, possibly at the first conference hearing on the matter.

While I'm here, let me offer some reality. The current model is probably unsustainable. A different model may take its place. More importantly, if you live in Austin, your interests are not really aligned with those who live in Houston, and perhaps even Dallas.

Why comment now? Sounds like y'all have reached a point of critical mass in Houston, and it may impact things in other cities. Finally, if Tillman wanted to shut the games down in Houston, it would have happened a long tme ago...like before Harvey. He may be taking the position that any sort of expansion of gambling in Houston, which is his home base, will help his business in Lake Charles.

The good news? At some point, the State will have to get involved. But not until after the elections.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:51 AM   #979
Texasholdemmike
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by clivestraddle View Post
someone brought up a really interesting point...

now that freerolls closed and is supposed to have the WPT even at their new location - which is not opening for months

two major events are coming to Houston
Card player tour and WPT deep stack

these will be key for attracting other tour stops

if they are successful and go off without a hitch this will be great for business
but if there are any issues or they don't draw the crowd - this will probably prevent others from coming to houston

time will tell - supposedly freerolls gave away about 60 $1k seats to the WPT event

Where is Freerolls new location?
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:20 AM   #980
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

It is supposed to be in katy in a 12.5k sq ft building for it (that is 1/2 of the building space) - this is supposed to happen sometime in September.

However word is that the main people have no intention of re-opening and are going to pass on hosting the WPT to someone else (this rumour is not confirmed except by someone that said they were present on the day the closed shop and were out of there with all equipment the same day).

Should the location be posted and construction started - I am sure I will hear about it and pass on this good news to the group.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:44 AM   #981
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

thur 12:45 am
prime - 11 tables running
post oak 3 tables

one of the problems that these clubs is the number of support staff to keep even one table running

door man / valet guy / manager / cashier / game girl / etc....I was at mint and with 3 tables running there are 3 back up dealers 2 managers - 2 security guys and cashier
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:40 AM   #982
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

thur 5:30 am

prime - 4 tables running
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:21 AM   #983
dgis back
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by clivestraddle View Post
thur 5:30 am

prime - 4 tables running
Anyone here interested in these daily updates from Clivestraddle about tables that are running or can anyone interested just look on Bravo themselves if they want to see/compare how many tables are running at the rooms on Bravo? Questions to ponder!
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:41 AM   #984
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Its not on bravo - it is on pokeratlas.com
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:10 PM   #985
michelle227
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgis back View Post
Anyone here interested in these daily updates from Clivestraddle about tables that are running or can anyone interested just look on Bravo themselves if they want to see/compare how many tables are running at the rooms on Bravo? Questions to ponder!
A daily accounting is likely overkill, as is numbers for odd hours. I would dare opine that there are MANY in the areas around the State that hold down actual jobs and are not looking to play late at night or in the wee hours of the morning.

By example, when I was playing at POPC, I would head over after I left the office (often around 630-7P) and play for a while and then drive back to the lake house. I damned sure didn't (and still don't) care about action after midnight or in the early morning hours. And let's face reality...there are A LOT of casinos in Las Vegas where you may not even see more than a table or two running at the before-6AM hours...which makes the tally in Houston that much more meaningless at that same hour.

As to tangram's post, not sure if their 'why comment now' was directed at me or a general comment. If directed specifically to me, it is simple on two levels- first, I have residences in both the Austin area as well as the Houston area and second, the case is recently filed and is the specific reason the TxOAG punted on the Opinion.

The fact that SIGH showed yet again why they are lame was just icing on the cake...but I also figure there might be some others here that have the access on the Travis County District Clerk's page to view documents and, if so, they might ALSO have wanted to go review the pleadings for themselves. Using the flawed information from SIGH, they might not have known what they were looking for.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:14 PM   #986
DrStrange
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

A historical record of attendance could end up being really helpful / interesting. It is true any of us could collect the information and build our own records, but very few will know they are interested in the data until it is too late.

No harm in reporting the results. it could be helpful in the moment to some folks, and in the future there is a chance we will be happy to have the old records.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:51 PM   #987
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

i have talked to people that play at the various clubs and claim that they just left so and so club and there were 8 tables running ...and yet the numbers show they are much different....

I am curious if these numbers are incorrect and the operators are not inputting data or is the person mistaken....if they are incorrect then the clubs are paying a HUGE amount of money for bad info which can hurt them

From what I am told to have poker atlas the costs are
16k for installation
tables must be cut out to accommodate the software (or use a tablet in the dealer tray)
$1600/month charge


Occassionally I post early morning hours when they are extraordinary to see 5+_tables running at the wee hours
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:46 PM   #988
BulltexasATM
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Lions is now on Poker Atlas as well
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:18 PM   #989
Lynxni
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by clivestraddle View Post

From what I am told to have poker atlas the costs are
16k for installation
tables must be cut out to accommodate the software (or use a tablet in the dealer tray)
$1600/month charge
If that's accurate then Babaloos in Katy must be hemorrhaging money. They have barely had enough players to start a 7 person tournament daily, much less any sort of cash game. Add to that the free food, free drinks and discounted entry I don't see them lasting much longer.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:24 PM   #990
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Rumour - substantiated by one person (i trust) - owner of babaloo was a partner in post oak - took the chef and dealers with him to for new club
(at post oak prices - i would agree that this will be tough for them - at least 3 other establishments with the same prices are either folded or just stopped advertising in that area)
Housed in a restaurant / bar environment

Fact - katy just does not seem to do well in drawing poker players - I have my own theories as to why but suffice it to say that
a - if you are deep into katy - law is not friendly to anything involving illegal activities (this is not to say rake free is illegal)
b - it seems the population at large does not frequent games other than very social home games out that way - many have tried but for the most part poker is not high on their list of activities
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:44 PM   #991
GtownAce
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

FREESCAMS I mean FREEROLLS is next club moving to Katy and opening September according to owners. That will be 3 clubs in Katy. Seriously doubt they open anywhere and according to employees they've been left in dark about the whole situation. No info anywhere on there move or closing other than 1 text message to players. Does anyone have info other than table talk? Clivestraddle I'm sure you've done your investigating on them since it was in your area. That's 2 failed clubs at same location.
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:28 PM   #992
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

i think news to the contrary is coming out gtownace...i will post when actually confirmed

personally i thought like you did..sort of like that commercial "reverse mortage" - its just a way for the banks to take your home...

frankly i am cheering the fact if this news is true
a - it shows the character of the freerolls team and
b- it shows that poker could take a deep foothold in houston
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:13 PM   #993
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Have not heard a word from these clubs

On the felt - i heard it was for sale - i think that Darrel Sullivan is involved somehow - he runs a bar game

Royal Poker - stopped texting

Looks like babaloo is really struggling - they run 9 tournaments a day - hyper turbos - not something i would drive all the way out to katy for

Steel poker - a badly worded ad hinted there was more than poker going on there
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Old 07-14-2018, 04:35 AM   #994
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Interesting development in the SE region

Lately the games have been overwhelming large with 1k stacks in the 1/3 game being common place - personally I like to buy in for 200BBs in any holdem game and 1-2k bbs in any PLO games (I don't play much PLO).

That being said the 1/3 game is reallly a 2/5 with straddles common at 6 to $10

I come to find that to "calm things down" - they make the 1/3 a max $300 buy in - well if the straddles are on - you basically have 30 BBs and this is not a good thing AND you can not reload more than 300.

That being said - now if you have massive draws and 110 left - its an all in fest....

I think the intention is right but the execution is wrong. My own thoughts

Two solutions

A - increase the max buy in to 500 and rebuys can be either 1/2 / 3/4 or up to big stack - this will allow someone that loses a massive pot to have a chance to get their money back - If someone gets a massive stack (and this is what i saw after 5 hrs of play) - they became the chip bully wiping out short stacks when they made a push of $60-120 all in pre and its off to the races or
B - "Dissolve" the tables every 4/6 or 12 hrs - starting them over - now if the players disagree you can "starve" the tables by bringing players to the new tables and not bringing them to tables that run a long time - some form of this will eventually peter out the massive stacks and they will move to lower average stack games and they can buy in according to the suggestion in Point "a".

Thoughts - how would you play under this new ruling

Personally I have adapted a little bit but it takes more thinking now to sustain a stack and not let yourself get short stacked and stay a viable player in the game.
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:10 AM   #995
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

one last point was the thought was the active 1/3 players would move to the 5/5 game
I have a real distaste for "same blind games" ..there is no reason for the SB to fold if it is checked around and this lets two people in "free" - that being said...1/3 players (that play like 2/5) are not ready to play 5/5 (which players like 10/25) - you think you are a "big players in 1/3 with 500-1k but you are a small fish with 1k in 5/5 ..when your effective stack is really about 40 BBs
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:47 PM   #996
pokermon!
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

They could stop allowing straddles if people are complaining about the stakes at 1/3 too.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:47 PM   #997
tangram16
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227 View Post
As to tangram's post, not sure if their 'why comment now' was directed at me or a general comment. If directed specifically to me, it is simple on two levels- first, I have residences in both the Austin area as well as the Houston area and second, the case is recently filed and is the specific reason the TxOAG punted on the Opinion.
It was a general comment, not directed towards Michelle227. It's my belief that nothing is likely going to happen until after the elections. Please follow the bouncing ball here:

1) Texas' system of justice is birfurcated between civil and criminal divisions. It is unique in that about the only way you can challenge a penal statute (not 100% but close) is to actually be prosecuted under the statute in question.

2) What, at the end of the day, is most likely to cause a jurisidictional issue is the prospect of a civil court contruing a penal statute. This, again, is a no no in TX, with some exceptions which likely don't apply here. That, and of course, the issue of whether a civil court in Austin has jx over something that happens in San Antonio (which Michelle has noted).

3) The plaintiffs are almost certainly well aware of this and probably filed the lawsuit for the sole purpose of getting the opinion letter delayed. But the reality is that the AG apparently wants no part of this, especially close to an election where the Democrats are going to make a run at both the Governor's office (Abbott should win, but the fact he's only up 10 right now should be cause for concern), as well as the Senate race between Cruz and O'Rourke (Cruz is currently up 9, but this one is going to tighten up). Actually, it's pretty clever what plaintiffs did, but the allegedly far from stupid judge should toss this case at the first conference.


4) Let's say an opinion letter negative to the interests of the current model is issued. You should be able to get into court to challenge it, and there may be an argument (both substantive and procedural due process) that the inability to have a penal statute contstrued without a prosecution violated the 14th Amendment, but I'm getting way ahead of myself.

5) I'm all in favor of legal poker in Texas. But I'm also a realist, and being an outsider has its plusses and minuses. One of the plusses is that I can see the landscape dispassionately. It's just not realistic to not expect mass expansion of a business which may not be 100% legal, but certainly one the public wants, and to expect that the business be sustainable over the long term. Consider other vice-related businesses (weed, girls, etc.), which are not legal but generally are tolerated by LEOs. At the end of the day, for a zillion reasons (which you need to figure out on your own), the social club thingy is unsustainable, and any sort of legal gambling needs to be regulated. I'm very much aware you've had underground poker, slot machines, etc forever, but how that's going to be marketed to the public down the road is probably going to change. It's just not realistic to have this model, and have it tolerated in a couple of cities, less tolerated in another, and not tolerated in a fourth.

Anyway, best of luck to all the operators, and I'll be keeping an eye on this.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:18 AM   #998
clivestraddle
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

chances of the clubs suing for compensation if shut down?
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:12 AM   #999
Texasholdemmike
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Friday night Prime had 16 tables going..... Only a few had open seats....
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:58 AM   #1000
Texasholdemmike
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Re: Membership-Based Poker in Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by clivestraddle View Post
Interesting development in the SE region

Lately the games have been overwhelming large with 1k stacks in the 1/3 game being common place - personally I like to buy in for 200BBs in any holdem game and 1-2k bbs in any PLO games (I don't play much PLO).

That being said the 1/3 game is reallly a 2/5 with straddles common at 6 to $10

I come to find that to "calm things down" - they make the 1/3 a max $300 buy in - well if the straddles are on - you basically have 30 BBs and this is not a good thing AND you can not reload more than 300.

That being said - now if you have massive draws and 110 left - its an all in fest....

I think the intention is right but the execution is wrong. My own thoughts

Two solutions

A - increase the max buy in to 500 and rebuys can be either 1/2 / 3/4 or up to big stack - this will allow someone that loses a massive pot to have a chance to get their money back - If someone gets a massive stack (and this is what i saw after 5 hrs of play) - they became the chip bully wiping out short stacks when they made a push of $60-120 all in pre and its off to the races or
B - "Dissolve" the tables every 4/6 or 12 hrs - starting them over - now if the players disagree you can "starve" the tables by bringing players to the new tables and not bringing them to tables that run a long time - some form of this will eventually peter out the massive stacks and they will move to lower average stack games and they can buy in according to the suggestion in Point "a".

Thoughts - how would you play under this new ruling

Personally I have adapted a little bit but it takes more thinking now to sustain a stack and not let yourself get short stacked and stay a viable player in the game.
Pretty simple offer a 1/3 game with a max buy in of 300 and have some with higher max buy-ins... The market will determine which game people will play.

1/3 max buy in 300
1/3 max buy in 1k
1/3 no cap
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