I play at Mint daily and like I said previously this is not a legal poker room at all, at any time you want you can take cash chips off the table to buy time cards and tip chips and even to just put in your pocket if you want. No one cares and players love it. Owner doesn’t even care he has no answer for it and obviously dealers want it and allow it for there economic benifet, guys say they don’t go to Post oak for this reason this is not allowed at post oak and it’s done the right way there.

They should be paying sales tax, no? That's a decent amount of money on the sales these rooms seem to be generating.

Not all fees are subject to sales tax. In order to have State sales tax apply, it would have to be the sale of personal property or a personal service subject to tax.

I've not dug far enough into the Comptroller's website to determine whether this would fall under Amusement Services subject to tax. But, even if it were presumptively taxable, there is nothing to say that it cannot be incorporated INTO the fee already charged. After all, I know at least one airport charges an odd hourly so that the per-hour with tax comes out to even dollar figures...

Obviously, places like Post Oak presumptively have an account with the Comptroller given the tax being collected on food sales. So we know the State is aware of the premises...

In states that allow gambling on horse racing, including Texas , the state has an interest in knowing exactly the amount of money that is handled by the track on wagers. The state collects a tax that is different from the sales tax on food, tip sheets, racing forms, etc. The tax on the dollars wagered by the bettors is levied by the state per statute. I am merely suggesting that the state will want its cut of the action. I also believe the state will want to regulate the games, just like horse racing so that the public will know that the games are legit and that, as much as possible, someone is paying attention.

Pari-mutuel wagers are different than chips in play. Further, chips in play are different than the track handle by virtue of how payouts take place. By example, I could buy-in with $2K in chips, sit for a few hours and not have any 'wagers' beyond the obligatory SB/BB, with the house getting precisely ZERO of those once an orbit wagers.

Contrast that with a dog or horse track and I cannot make any wager without going to the window and knowing a cut comes off of the top and that odds could change by the time the race goes off.

I don't believe there are different taxing structures for food and beverage sales. Those should be consistent with any other local food and beverage establishment. And racing forms, when I got them for the dog track in Corpus before it closed, were no different tax-wise than any other publication.

Track taxes pay per the schedule on the Comptroller's website: https://comptroller.texas.gov/taxes/pari-mutuel/ -the amount per race is really pretty minimal which explains why F&B tax revenue dwarfs pari-mutuel income. Even titty bars bring in more revenue for the State than the tracks...at least based upon 2015 tax year numbers.

That being said, there is no question the State leaves several million dollars a year on the table by not formally legalizing poker. Some Counties do quite a bit of business through their licensing of eight-liner machines (yes, there are actual permits issued and funds collected). There are reasons the eight-liners are so prevalent in South Texas.

unfortunately you are right that there are taxes that could be collected - but they come at a cost too as tax payers - the cost of staffing / enforcing / regulating - those revenues - by the time it is said and done...it might be in the "bean counters eyes" either not worth it or it could even be a deficit on the books

I was not trying to suggest that poker and parimutual betting are similar. I recognize the difference as you pointed out. My point is that the government has an interest in regulating institutions that are perceived as gambling. While we want to distinguish poker as a game of skill, I believe the State of Texas considers it gambling. I personally believe that the State will eventually insist on its cut if it decides to let these rooms continue operating.

I am very familiar with the eight liner operations. The state and localities insist on their cut by selling the operators stickers for their "vending machines and by imposing rules and regulations for said machines. As soon as someone believes someone else is making too much or if someone violates the rules and regulations, law enforcement swoops in and shuts them down.

The membership card rooms pay no license fee and have no regulation. Basically, the staff of the rooms sets the rules and regulations.

How do the players know they are not being cheated? Are their shills in the games? Can husbands deal to wives? boyfriends to girlfriends? Are the cards regulated? How often do the owners change the cards being used? How do we know their are not counterfeit chips? Marked cards? Collusion amongst players? I recognize that the players are free not to play if they believe the game is not straight, but I believe we would all prefer to play in a regulated environment such as exists in states where the game operators are licensed and a governing body makes sure that the shady operators are shut down.

No.

This place is supposed to be opening very soon in Midland, so they continue to spread around the state. Has anyone who plays in Lake Charles, Houston, Thackerville, Durant noticed a downturn in those rooms?

http://kojackspokerclub.com

MINT POKER is 24 Hours and 100% illegal at anytime you can take chips off the table to buy time tokens for house benefit and also the floorman comes around room selling tip chips for dealers your allowed to take cash game chips off the table to make house and dealers a economic benefit from the game. this is a illegal game and Owner Micheal Eakman does not care neither does Webster Police department who are posted up next to the cage in MINT POKER.

wasting your breath on mint
numerous allegations of fraud and theft on charity events - most recent example of jj watt fund monies collected AFTER jj watt personally returned all funds

and you think they are going to take action because money taken off the table?

The games definitely had an effect on Winstar. How much though, I have no clue. I just know of a lot of Winstar regs that were no longer making the drive to Winstar. That being said, all rooms in Dallas/Ft Worth have been shut down now.

As for Midland, that's probably the last place I'd put a poker room. Midland is one of the most conservative cities in the country (ranked in the top .5%) and has never been very receptive to places of ill repute operating there. Even if they were to allow it, you piss off the wrong person and they'd shut it down in a blink of an eye. I'd much rather open one up in Odessa. That being said, given the # of clubs that have recently been shut down it seems more prudent to take a wait and see approach before opening a club. I'd at least want to see if the Houston clubs are allowed to continue to operate.

I recently talked to a guy that said he is going to open a club in El Paso. He didn't seem to care that clubs in DFW were getting shut down even though he knew people were losing their asses.

your right clivestraddle no one does anything about it. Eakman does not care he has a cash cow and no one will stop him not even the Webster Police.

i have no beef with any of the rooms that are run for profit / enjoyment / love of the game...if you want to charge 10k/hr...god bless you if you get the traffic...

but this guy - has such a bad history - i am really disappointed in the poker community reaction to the facts that are as plain as day

3 new places opening in Houston

Www.lionspokerpalace.com - says opening Nov 1

Www.storypokerclub.com - says hiring dealers and opening soon.

Www.westsidepokerclub.com - says hiring dealers and opening soon.

Not enough players to support all these rooms. So many opening it’s only a matter of time until they get scrutiny from local officials. Now at least 10 in Houston.

My vote and endorsement goes to
STAR POKER - No website - operating as a TRUE MEMBERS ONLY CLUB
$10 per day (allowed 2 visits per month and then you have to be a member) - after that there is no daily charge
Membership is $30 per month
NO HOURLY CHARGE
NO SEAT CHARGE
NO DOOR FEE
Games from 0.25/0.50 and up

no charge for drinks or snacks - members respect that the low rates and there is a tip jar to replenish the supply

A totally different concept - as per the law - these clubs should REQUIRE members only / private club

btw..i have no investment in this club and do not collect one dime from its operation. I support it because IMO it is the correct way to run a game given the requirements of the law that states there is no economic benefit from the game. The membership is the only compensation the owner receives.

I am allowed to use the facility for chess / backgammon / tonk and dominoes on the non poker nights.

Whats the point of following the law clivestraddle when one of the most successful rooms Mint poker who is 5 miles away From Star poker breaks the law with law inforcement standing 2 steps away from the cash cage and has a view of floor happenings. By the way Star is located in a horrible location and your online live play membership based room is on another level of illegal. so you want me to play online poker, while in a membership based poker room? id say take a seat clivestraddle and try something again in a few months cause ONLINE GAMBLING is illegal and easy to track. Your talking about following the law but you want members to be members of your illegal online poker club. let us know how that goes. You also have a strong resistance from players who sit at Mint cause im sitting here now at Mint poker with 3 live play tables going at 3am and your the talk of the table CLIVE. Im not a fan of MINT but its so convenient to play here and break the law. last pot i scooped i took $75 off the table and put in my pocket and know one even cares, and $115 cash chips and $50 cash chips just came off the table to buy tip chips and time chips for the house. how awesome is that

Whats the point of following the law clivestraddle when one of the most successful rooms Mint poker who is 5 miles away From Star poker breaks the law with law inforcement standing 2 steps away from the cash cage and has a view of floor happenings. By the way Star is located in a horrible location and your online live play membership based room is on another level of illegal. so you want me to play online poker, while in a membership based poker room? id say take a seat clivestraddle and try something again in a few months cause ONLINE GAMBLING is illegal and easy to track. Your talking about following the law but you want members to be members of your illegal online poker club. let us know how that goes. You also have a strong resistance from players who sit at Mint cause im sitting here now at Mint poker with 3 live play tables going at 3am and your the talk of the table CLIVE. Im not a fan of MINT but its so convenient to play here and break the law. last pot i scooped i took $75 off the table and put in my pocket and know one even cares, and $115 cash chips and $50 cash chips just came off the table to buy tip chips and time chips for the house. how awesome is that

hey...i have been around the block a few times - glad to be the "talk of the table" - at least they
a - are not bashing someone else
b - i bet not one word of i owe anyone or cheated anyone

be that as it may - as i said - i have no financial interest in STAR poker - I am helping the original guy out after he got screwed by someone that gave him dreams of grandeur

If i can run chess or backgammon club there - I will but for me - I have basically retired for the LIVE poker world

on another topic - it is going to be interesting on two fronts now
The drain of players and The drain of dealers
Over the years - i have had a ton of dealers come in and out - pretty much all of them were good as dealers but it is an inverse relationship of proficiency at dealing and reliability as employees.

One has to pick one or the other - and with timed rake and the pay the dealers will receive - don't expect to see hands whizzing out

Next comes the "fractionaliztion" of players - with so many places to choose from and the consistency of rates 10 - 15 - players will mostly just play close to their homes and not really care to drive huge distances to play

As they say - the market will sort it all out

They have a new url

http://www.postoakpokerclub.com/

While some will claim it is semantics, the clubs are not being 'shut down' by law enforcement agencies or court order. The business owners are making a decision to cease doing business rather than push the issue in a court room.

I have yet to see ANY discussion of an actual Court Order that has been the direct cause of a cessation of operations in the recent closures using the membership models.

Such prosecutions would be something that, much like the eight-liner prosecutions, occur at the local level, not with the Office of the Attorney General. As such, it is well with reason that El Paso, especially with the Tiguas relatively close, could fare better...the problems the Tiguas have had were not with local authorities but rather with the State OAG trying to assert that federal law did not protect them.

Even more interesting would be if the room was opened with some arrangement in place WITH the Tiguas, placing it more on par with what is operated with the Kickapoo in Eagle Pass.

Honest question. Why do you think that none of the owners have pushed the issue and taken this to court? I'm new to Texas and have played in one room a few times over the past month. It was nice, clean & comfortable. Better than some of the casino poker rooms I've been in. This past week, one of the dealers was noting how much money was spent on the room to get it to that state. With the owners obviously having spent considerable money to get the rooms up and running, and having advice from their attorneys, why wouldn't they protect their investments? Is it just the cost of a court battle?

Simple, the games aren't legal. Despite the claims that these places have legal counsel, I don't see any lawyers risking a malpractice lawsuit by claiming beforehand that they are legal. The people insisting on their legality are the game runners themselves, for obvious reasons. For all the obnoxious posts about Mint's legality, Mint probably did the best under this framework because they have the support of local businesses and authorities. None of this stuff about tipping, going south, etc. matters. All of these places are blatantly illegal. If for no other reason than because there's absolutely no regulatory oversight. How do you deal with cheaters? How do you dispute a floor ruling that costs you a huge pot?

But here's the real question- does it really matter if it's illegal if they don't get charged?