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07-13-2022 , 09:38 PM

#2651

Dream Crusher

banned

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 18,786

Quote:

Originally Posted by northernrr

Im told the other Texas cities aren't as bad as this, but I haven't been.

Dallas is way worse than this. Last time I played there were Euros in every 2/5 game.

07-14-2022 , 12:02 AM

#2652

northernrr

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 6

I was talking about not as bad with the safety, violence, cheating, and shootings I laid out.

07-14-2022 , 09:41 PM

#2653

Fore

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdwhitt

Statewide, probably not. I think we’ve seen that some cities are fine. What’s a concern is places like Legends in Houston make so much noise that the city can’t ignore them.

AFAIK, it is a state law that is at question. To date the state has not said anything in support or or against. But if the state ever does decide to make a ruling against, you believe any city will remain untouched? Let's assume state court rules illegal, you believe the state will hesitate to go into any city and s/d rooms (confiscating $'s and arresting staff)?

If the state ever does rule, all is legal (and we ignore the rooms who long ago crossed over and are raking to survive), then hopefully state also regulates, and the good/better rooms go on. But if the state rules it illegal, the good/better (honest?) rooms will all go and what is left prolly isn't where you want to play. Heck at that point, the underground games make a come back (they are still around now) and become the best places to play.

Note I am not saying the all rooms are legal or illegal (though at least some definitely are illegal) just that IF the state courts decide that they are illegal, it won't be handled on a city by city basis (though some cities likely pass their own ordinances against such rooms, but those cities probably don't have room or very few rooms now.) If the state succcessfully shutsdown one room, cash in any chips you have elsewhere as fast as you can.

07-15-2022 , 12:09 PM

#2654

NLOmahaHL

grinder

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 614

2 things

Dallas objectively sucks
~ a Houstonian

Texas penal code:
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/D.../htm/PE.47.htm

07-15-2022 , 12:37 PM

#2655

answer20

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10,857

quick scan, but it appears that the 'defensible' area is where these rooms lean on .. 47.02 B? GL

07-15-2022 , 02:27 PM

#2656

marknfw

Gaming Commissioner

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 13,096

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLOmahaHL

2 things

Dallas objectively sucks
~ a Houstonian

Texas penal code:
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/D.../htm/PE.47.htm

I'm not sure how, but you got that exactly backwards.

07-15-2022 , 02:59 PM

#2657

BulltexasATM

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by northernrr

*major warning & heads up to those considering a Texas(specifically Houston) poker trip*

From searching online & asking around there is big lack of information on what's actually going on in and around these rooms in Houston. I can't imagine there has ever been a more dangerous, chaotic, corrupt, and risky place to play poker in history. The current culture, climate, and local criminal element (who have their teeth sunk into these games) living their lives with no regard for the their own life let alone those around them have the cities players going to rooms on edge looking over shoulders for the next drama to unfold. Im wrapping up a long trip down here, have made a lot of contacts with players who were here before me who GTFO as well as locals who've lived here all their life, and overheard and witnessed countless shocking things. That's with lots apparently getting swept under the rug and attempts to keep so much quiet. Here's some of what I've either witnessed or heard from multiple sources, buckle your seatbelt.

1) Every jackass has a gun. Ive been to several rooms where I could see guns in players pockets who were playing some of which I've seen make threatening statements over silly things related to how a hand was played. *4 people I've met say have had guns pointed at them in traffic and I had the same happen to me. At a stoplight outside prime social (7801 Westheimer) in broad daylight a car pulls up to another shooting 2 people 7+ shots killing 1, they were local poker players and supposedly were playing at a room in the area earlier. Link
https://www.khou.com/amp/article/new...d-23ec9735b8f9 - This is true but had nothing to do with poker. It was related to something else. I know the guy that got shot and had played with him earlier at Johnny Chan's 88 and he was going to Prime when this happened but not poker related at all.

2) I've heard multiple on edge players make statements eluding to feeling like getting their AR15 or AK out of the trunk and shooting the room over losing $ or feeling they've been cheated. I've heard these statements made in a general shootup room way & personal disputes arguing with players. Virtually none of these rooms have security to stop an active shooter. They all have security but not enough to stop someone determined to do harm. Same at a casino by the way.

3) I saw someone go get a gun out of car and use it to threaten someone he was arguing with. I've separately heard stories of this happening over and over. Can happen anywhere.

4) heard 2 separate stories of people putting guns in the mouths of players in above ground rooms. Never heard about this. Skeptical.

5) if someone attacks you in a room it's up to you and the other players to protect/save you. Saw a player get up walk over and hit another player and no security came over at any point once, the other time I saw it it took forever to get security. Also seen players standing over ready to attack a guy if he said another word and it not be for minutes till security showed up. I heard about a floor guy threatening to take players outside to fight them. Probably true. Have seen numerous fights at Houston poker places over the years.

6) At a room with supposedly better security heard a pro had a local grab the chips and violently throw them into his face and threaten his life bcuz he thought the guy slow rolled him. Again this could(and does) happen anywhere. Have you ever played in LA?

8) Multiple instances where dealers had to be held back by multiple people from attacking players while in the box who were arguing with them. I've heard of dealers actually attacking players while in the box. Have seen this.

9) players apparently have been getting followed outside of room and in some cases all the way to hotels or home for some time. I'm told there are countless incidents, so who knows how many were afraid to even speak up. Some of these folks were robbed, beat up, and had their home burglarized. For amounts ranging from only 200 friggin dollars to tens of thousands. There are shady people in all these rooms watching the cashouts, some not even playing, just looking. There has been talk of employees being involved with some of these people & incidents Agreed 100% true. Lots of follow home robberies. Know many of the people that were robbed. Most were PLO players.

10) if all the above wasn't nutty enough, how about rooms being shot at with assault rifles as if they were games with high value targets present in the most active war zones? Yea, it's a thing in Houston. So much so some rooms have attempted build&construct bullet barriers (never noticed this anywhere in the country) around the outside of rooms bcuz the rooms are targets of drive by AR15 shootings while players are playing so often. I mean to actually build barriers like your in a warzone? You know you're taking gambling to a whole nother level. Yep. Would never play at most of these places after dark.

11)In a small built room full of players+staff a player with mask enters from kitchen with an assault rifle demanding cash, in the struggle 15 shots are fired in the room which luckily went through wall to parking lot rather than hitting players. Guy supposedly played and has a lot of friends who still do. ***Players had lots of chips maybe thousands taken by people in the room while they were hiding under tables or running out back, supposedly not reimbursed*** - This was at Legends. Well documented. Know the player that stole the chips too. He's a scum bag. Banned and went back to Oklahoma where he lives.

12) Again during a busy time people go by with an assault rifle and fires 20+ shots at & into the room. Multiple bullets got through, there are pics online of a bullet hole in TV and players on the floor. Chips stolen again. Management says things are fine get back to dealing/playing. Yep, playing at Legends after dark and you are risking your life.

13) Play in the burbs instead? A room in the {supposedly} safer more suburban area (Katy) is shot up from the outside.
Another true one. This happened at 101 Katy. No one ever caught.

14) Someone dies outside of legends from being shot in parking lot. True but was totally unrelated to Poker but again shows how bad that area is at night.

15) There is a room that has had at least 3 robberies in the last couple years. Not sure about this one. One happened last week at a small place called The River.

16) Countless shootings outside or across street from rooms near clubs. Yes, the area Legends and 101 Richmond are in is dangerous at night for sure.

17) Fight and shooting in front of a room leads to people running inside front door scrambling pushing each other fearing their lives looking for safety. Not sure about this one. Think you might be referencing the Katy 101 shooting which you already covered in #13

18) A room that tried to put up a barrier to block gunfire takes supposedly anywhere from 30-70 rapid fire auto weapon shots when gunman gets out and tried to shoot over barrier. Some gunfire confirmed made it through. Management yells at everyone to get back to dealing/playing everything is fine again. This was at Legends and was already covered in #12. You are being repetitive now.

19) low rent security has been threatened with violence by players when security had questions after metal detector went off. I know this has happened at Prime.

20) lots of people have had car windows busted out, broken into, and even stolen in some cases outside of games. True. Happened at the old 52 Social/Johnny Chan's 88 which is now 101 Richmond.

21) heard of an instance where a staff member clocked someone he didn't like into a table late night to drain their "time" and told the players and dealer not to worry about it. Never heard of this but can believe it.

22) more dealers than not seem unprofessional commenting on the action, the players, allowing influencing action in hands, and disrespectful name calling of players. They get defensive and fire at you when you try to point out their errors(before significant action occurs) in hand. This happens everywhere. You should go to Vegas during WSOP.

23) cheating and scamming is beyond prevalent. there have been fake chip scandals at a bunch of rooms including $100 chips. Yep, know the player that did it. Has happened at the Old Post Oak, Johnny Chans 88 and most recently at Prime. Same guy most likely at all 3. He was finally caught and outed at Prime. 88 caught him but never publicized it.

24) extra aces end up in decks all across the city. lots of documented hands with an extra ace at showdown.
players have gotten caught keeping an ace under their phone, up sleeves, ect over and over and still play in the rooms. Confirmed cheaters constantly conning are in the games daily, even after getting caught Not sure about this.

25) marked cards are the norm. True. Important to watch decks and when you see creases, etc. to get a deck change. There are some cheaters that pull any angle for sure.

26) checkout Joey Ingrams videos on cheating related to at least 1 Houston room possibly even involving rigging the shufflers. That isn't even the one of the sleeziest rooms, most are worse. There are criminals from here and all over the country coming to exploit these weak unregulated rooms getting away with cheating. Yep this happened at Prime. Swept under the rug but players are aware of it. Guys that cheated were from out of town and are now gone. Rumor someone inside was involved in the cheating.

27) another thing I was unaware of prior to my visit is that so many of the people playing in the rooms are house players. Most are at a minimum solid and have been playing for decades, some for income. A bunch them are questionable speaking different languages at the table and at times trying to talk to each other quietly multi way. Seems like some are put in the best games also, which should be the opposite. A lot of other things related to this that has been speculated and assumed. Yep. At Legends for sure.

28) A room manager was apparently caught on camera stealing green birds from a players stack. I saw the video. Some said it was a joke. Not sure if true of not. Happened at Empire and the guy that was shown doing it is well known as he has worked at a number of these places.

29) there are known chip thieves who steal from players stacks who the rooms won't ban, they are even really nice to some of these people. so GL protecting those stacks away from the table or when your head is turned. Not sure about this but wouldn't surprise me.

30) lots of known violent criminals are embraced by the rooms. If you win on the felt, the game isn't over, you need to make it away from the room and safe inside your hotel to secure the win. Yes.

31) a room is allowing a wealthy player to grab, punch, twist the arms, and fist to fist punch players. Hard. Seemingly never telling him to stop. Think this might be at 101 Katy if you are talking about Chol. He goes overboard when he drinks for sure and is such a donkey he gets away with a lot.

32) "Best poker" recently opened up and a shooting happened in the parking lot the very first night. Didn't hear about this one.

33) there was another supposedly safer room shot up in the last week. supposedly by a disgruntled player who'd been kicked out shortly before. This is true. Happened at Prime.

34) a room on the north side near Texas card house was robbed by multiple armed gunman a few days ago. Yep, the River.

35) All I heard was prior to coming was Texas action&donkeys(I don't see it), nothing about any of this craziness. The games aren't even that good in Houston IMO. There are tough 2/5-10/25 types at many of the 1/3s. People seem seduced by just a few whales around town chasing them, but if there is a good game these people already have a long transfer list to play the game. Dunno that the list are properly ran down either. PLO is the nuts. Don't play hold em so can't comment on those games. No better PLO in the country for making money than Houston.

36) Locals have become desensitized I think to the violence, culture, and chaos in these poker clubs. Folks seem to be operating as if they don't fear death or incarceration. The most extreme hustlers operate as if they're invincible and are embraced. You have to witness some of the daily interactions, acceptance, and hear the conversations. Agree. Playing after dark in most of these places is a big risk.

37) I imagine the rooms get shut down from someone being killed in a room. Good luck getting back the money&chips in those safety deposit boxes when the operation is permanently shut down. Could happen for sure. After players had their money locked up at Prime (all finally returned) and then Johnny Chan's 88 limiting cash outs (all made whole by the new owner of 101 Richmond when he bought the place) it is a risk I wouldn't take leaving any money in boxes.

This is all corroborated by me asking plenty of longtime players what they've heard. It isn't all I've heard, just a portion. Im told the other Texas cities aren't as bad as this, but I haven't been. I would guess it gets spread to other Texas cities to some degree, that's how it goes when certain factions of society see what some are getting away with. Absolutely mind blowing surreal poker trip. I won't be coming back

It's definitely a risk. To anyone thinking about coming I would recommend playing during the day. Games are still good and all the incidents mentioned above pretty much happened after dark. If you do play at night I think Texas Card House in Spring, 101 Katy(although they had the 1 incident mentioned above) or Spades in Clear Lake. Those are more in the suburbs and for the most part safer areas of Houston.

07-15-2022 , 06:14 PM

#2658

Dream Crusher

banned

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 18,786

Crazy how many of those you confirmed. All the Euros better stick to Dallas cuz they don't want none of that H-town heat.

I might still prefer to play at night due to Texas Penal Code 9.42.

Regarding players stealing chips off stacks, I'd say there's probably a 99% chance that happens with a decent amount of frequency. Back in the day there were multiple players doing that at Winstar and if the amount wasn't over like $500 Winstar's policy was to issue a 24 hour ban.

07-16-2022 , 03:16 AM

#2659

northernrr

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulltexasATM

multiple replys.

1) Was more mentioning to give an idea of the overall current climate and culture in the city, than directly poker related, tho they were poker players.

2) Overall I think the security at casinos is way more professional/intense, much bigger operations. A lot of these guys in rooms feel like filler/token security.

11) I know of a guy that allegedly stole in that situation and I believe still plays daily in various local rooms.

18) As crazy as it seems it's a newer shooting. They used a different type of gun in this one. This one was kept more quiet. Hell, there may have been other ones as well.

19) what I was hearing about was actually another room!

22) I've played in casinos various areas of the country, but have never heard dealers (1or2 tops)saying whatever they feel like, as they(a decent %) do in Houston. Lots of them say what they want, influence action, and even antagonize and instigate.

I think as some of the outer rooms started having bigger (especially PLO games) some of the looking for a mark types who show up don't play or play with a short and like to eyeball and whisper about the bigger games started showing up hanging around long after getting busted with eyes on the bigger games and cashouts. Criminals go wherever the opportunity is.

07-16-2022 , 12:24 PM

#2660

NLOmahaHL

grinder

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 614

Quote:

Originally Posted by answer20

quick scan, but it appears that the 'defensible' area is where these rooms lean on .. 47.02 B? GL

Yes, that section is the defense.

1. Private

2. No rake of proceeds of games (seat rental is the workaround here. "Pinging" is another workaround, but sketch.)

3. And yes, I guess everyone has an "equal" chance at winning while playing poker.

Re #1: Some rooms aren't protecting themselves because they do not require membership which would help in the argument that the games are happening in private.

Also glad that BullTexasATM responded to the lengthy post that was airing out grievances regarding poker in TX.

07-17-2022 , 10:11 AM

#2661

Da_Nit

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 9,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLOmahaHL

2 things

Dallas objectively sucks
s/PE/htm/PE.47.htm[/url]

Yeah and the sky is blue. Why post obvious stuff?

07-18-2022 , 05:35 PM

#2662

greatxwhite

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 243

Generally speaking money brings out the absolute worst humans... Houston poker is huge, but there is no doubt the city is pretty filled with organized crime and people trying to gain an edge from the lawlessness. After J Hammer left Prime, and 101 had a huge overlay, I am skeptical that we get any big series again any time soon. Hopefully Louisiana picks up the slack.

07-18-2022 , 07:57 PM

#2663

wreckem713

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 1,395

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatxwhite

does Golden Nugget ever have a series in Lake Charles??

07-19-2022 , 09:09 AM

#2664

greatxwhite

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 243

Quote:

Originally Posted by wreckem713

does Golden Nugget ever have a series in Lake Charles??

Never. Coushatta runs a couple a year that are poorly advertised and capped at 80 players plus alternates. GN Lake Charles only has 7 or so cash tables, they would have to use a ball room and add a bunch of tables and dealers.

07-19-2022 , 11:04 AM

#2665

BulltexasATM

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,685

You heard it here first

. I was told "The Hammer" will be moving back to Houston soon. Stay tuned!

07-19-2022 , 11:11 AM

#2666

greatxwhite

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 243

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulltexasATM

You heard it here first

. I was told "The Hammer" will be moving back to Houston soon. Stay tuned!

07-19-2022 , 05:52 PM

#2667

sdwhitt

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 188

I thought there’s some rule in Louisiana restricting the number of tables poker rooms can use.

07-19-2022 , 09:06 PM

#2668

greatxwhite

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 243

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdwhitt

I thought there’s some rule in Louisiana restricting the number of tables poker rooms can use.

Haven't heard that, and hard to imagine that is true considering the size of some of the fields that Harrah's New Orleans has hosted for Circuit stops. Regardless, feels like they could capitalize on the amount of players in Houston area

07-20-2022 , 11:04 PM

#2669

sdwhitt

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 188

I’ve always wondered why MSPT or Heartland or something never came to La besides WSOP circuit. Run Good used to go to Lafayette but they haven’t been back in awhile.

07-21-2022 , 08:25 AM

#2670

answer20

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10,857

LA is a bit off topic in this thread, but it's close enough, eh?

Some state Gaming restrictions limit the number of gaming 'seats' per venue. If LA is one of those states then any special 'series' would require a special permit of sorts and that would have to be renewed each time the event took place. I'm not saying that LA is one of those states, but it's possible. It's also possible that there were restrictions in the WSOPc contract that prevented other events from coming to a venue .. again, you need to read the fine print.

Poker is making a huge rebound from CV and it would be, IMO, in any venue's best interest to offer it even if only for these 'shot in the arm' cash flow events like tournament series.

Lots of Dealers in our area are joining up with the group that organizes 'traveling' Dealers to support these type of short term series. With a couple of the rooms still not offering poker in our area it's a great way for these folks to earn some quick cash. GL

07-21-2022 , 08:58 AM

#2671

greatxwhite

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 243

Agreed, and I got the Lake Charles thread fired back up in V&C's section, but it is all intertwined because I feel that the Houston/Dallas poker scene would make up the vast majority of the crowd at any Louisiana event. Regardless I hope to see some more sizable series in Houston in the fall maybe but I am not holding my breath. 101 missing their $1M GTD by 6 figures won't make them feel warm and fuzzy

07-21-2022 , 08:33 PM

#2672

HappyLuckBox

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,491

Considering moving to TX for live NLH High stakes cash. Was wondering what might be the best city for availability and softness of games? I'm currently considering either Dallas for TCH or Austin for TCH/Lodge. I usually play 5-T to 10-20 and sometimes 25-50.

It looks like dallas has way more tables of 2-5 running which I hear plays quite big for 2-5. Austin doesn't seem to have as much 2-5 running though. I would also look to play in the high stakes stream games if possible.

07-22-2022 , 01:38 AM

#2673

Dream Crusher

banned

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 18,786

You should probably try them out for yourself. I haven't played in a couple months so you can take what I say with a grain of salt. 5/T+ rarely runs at TCH Dallas. Part of the problem is that the room is far too small for the market and all the tables get filled up by tournaments and low stakes cash games. High stakes players don't want to wait for a few hours on a list that never gets called down. Many of the high stakes games are still underground. In the past 6 months some of the bigger games have been running at Poker House in Dallas. These games may be private and you may or may not be able to play in them.

If you normally play 5/T and T/20 then 2/5 TCH Dallas may very well meet your needs. The game is match stack, and in the early days there were definitely tables running on a daily basis that were play as big as T/20. Is that the case now? Probably not. Still, it's probably the largest 2/5 in the country. Just know that the secret has long been out about TCH Dallas. There are a lot of pros from Germany that play there. There are a lot of pros from Spain that play there. There are a lot of pros from the UK that play there. There are several pros from Eastern Europe that play there and also several pros from South America that play there. The games I played in this year ranged from great to quite probably the worst games in the entire country. Anecdotally what I've noticed at the tables I've played at this year is that the vast majority of super deep stacked players are euro pros. That certainly wasn't the case the first year the room was open. I'm not saying it's always terrible. The games can be good too but I think you really need to check it out yourself and see how the games are and figure out if it will work for you and whether or not you'll be able to get in some bigger games.

07-24-2022 , 12:25 PM

#2674

sdwhitt

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 188

I’d come down and play for a week in each place. Every game plays a level higher down here.

07-26-2022 , 02:19 PM

#2675

northernrr

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 6

In addition to all I listed, I'm hearing a Houston poker room was already shot up yet again. Saturday. Peak busy hours, bullets blown into a room by a high powered rifle.

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