Membership-Based Poker in Texas - Page 73 - Home Game Listings -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

You show a California location. Your card rooms are expressly permitted through State law. The games here are in facilities operating in a gray area of Texas law. Texas has NO Commission to oversee games or rooms precisely because there is no law that expressly authorizes the operation. A business model was created to work within the framework of the affirmative defenses existing in the Texas Penal Code.

I wasn't commenting on the legality of Texas card rooms. I was pointing out what seems to be an absurd statement by Chip Lewis in the referenced article, that the poker rooms earned no revenue from poker games. That's like saying bowling alleys earn no revenue from people bowling.

07-18-2019 , 05:38 PM

#1802

pokermon!

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 119

lol. did everyone receive a text basically saying Bill H. is endorsing Freerolls and recommending they go there to play?

07-18-2019 , 06:10 PM

#1803

michelle227

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlucky4some

A card room taking a time rake at the table is typically allowing players to use chips in play to pay whatever the amount due happens to be. This is NOT something that should be occurring in the Texas rooms with the model generally deemed to be consistent with the TPC.

Nuance is critical.

07-18-2019 , 06:59 PM

#1804

unlucky4some

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelle227

I'd like to be in the courtroom when that argument is first presented to a jury.

"The TPC says that it is an absolute defense if 'no person received any economic benefit other than personal winnings'. My client didn't get any economic benefit by taking chips off the poker table, he received it by charging the players an hourly rate, in cash. That nuance is critical."

Let me know how that works out.

Last edited by unlucky4some; 07-18-2019 at 07:05 PM.

07-18-2019 , 08:05 PM

#1805

tangram16

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 139

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makonnen

Follow up article in today's Houston Chronicle: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...d-14103912.php

This is TFF. Jones Walker is a large, nationally known firm, with some well known gaming attorneys whose clients include the Seminole Tribe of Florida and The Stronach Group (Gulfstream).

Now that I've armed the gentle reader with this information, you tell me who's scamming who. The only thing I might see here is a consultant lobbying wuthout a license, but that's something for a local practicioner to analyze.

07-18-2019 , 08:08 PM

#1806

tangram16

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 139

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dream Crusher

I'm with you. This quote makes no sense "Lewis said the clubs earned no revenue from the poker games."

Perhaps it's just semantics and it should have stated that they clubs earned no revenue from the poker pots.

That's technically correct. Whether that's a distinction with a legally significant difference, YGIAGAM. What Lewis is saying, the clubs didn't rake the games, no money went off the table, so there was no economic benefit derived. That's a plausible argument. While I doubt it would convince a trial court judge, it might convince an appellate panel.

07-18-2019 , 08:16 PM

#1807

tangram16

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 139

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelle227

While the State charges have been dismissed and an Order entered to return funds, it does not close the book. Kim has indicated she was referring the matter to the feds. Of those I knew who were in the criminal courts building today (including two in my building who do felony work), nobody was giving the impression that it was a case of the feds looking at the DA's office.

I still hold to my earlier position that the State codes were not violated. Federal could be a different matter but I have not looked at federal statutes to know what could or could not be proven with the facts that exist here...and I am not going to take the time to do so because federal law has basically no bearing on the area of Texas criminal practice in which I AM involved (namely parole and corrections).

That being said...I strongly believe that if Kim had truly believed a violation of State law existed, she would have turned the matter over to Paxton's office with a request for a Special Prosecutor to be appointed, which tends to be the usual course of business where a perceived conflict of interest was going to exist.

My best guess is that they're looking at AML in regards to the defendants. That's not to be confused with FINCEN regs at the social clubs- while they may be social clubs in the eyes of Texas, they're absolutely casinos (cardrooms, actually) in the eyes of the Federal government. But...LEOs generally don't discuss investigations so this sounds like some face saving on the part of the DA's office.

07-18-2019 , 10:10 PM

#1808

BulltexasATM

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokermon!

lol. did everyone receive a text basically saying Bill H. is endorsing Freerolls and recommending they go there to play?

No but would love more info on this.

07-19-2019 , 12:41 AM

#1809

Makonnen

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,372

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulltexasATM

No but would love more info on this.

That was a good summary:

Quote:

Bill H. from Post Oak Poker Club: I'd like to thank everyone for the support! If you are looking for a great place to play poker I highly recommend FreeRolls Poker Club at 24025 Katy Freeway in Katy, Texas. Great action, awesome staff, full bar, cigar lounge & more! Tell them I sent you!
Text STOP to end

07-19-2019 , 12:05 PM

#1810

michelle227

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlucky4some

Considering that the issue of chips FROM the table to cover expense HAS been addressed in the appellate courts, I know precisely how it would work out. Further, your failure to have read the discussions about the case law suggests you lack any working knowledge of Texas statutes or even anything about criminal procedure, much less what actually would get in front of a jury.

07-19-2019 , 12:16 PM

#1811

unlucky4some

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelle227

Considering that the issue of chips FROM the table to cover expense HAS been addressed in the appellate courts, I know precisely how it would work out.

Can you enlighten the rest of us with a citation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelle227

Further, your failure to have read the discussions about the case law suggests you lack any working knowledge of Texas statutes or even anything about criminal procedure, much less what actually would get in front of a jury.

Correct on all counts.

07-19-2019 , 01:39 PM

#1812

michelle227

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlucky4some

Can you enlighten the rest of us with a citation?

Gaudio was cited and discussed in this very thread a bit over a year and a half ago...

07-19-2019 , 02:32 PM

#1813

michelle227

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,177

For a slightly tangential and fun read... https://www.dolcefino.com/2019/07/18...poker-scandal/

My guess is that the request to Paxton is a standard TPIA letter ruling request as opposed to a traditional and more formal request for AG Opinion. The TPIA requests used to be viewable online but the pending requests were not shown...if this is a standard TPIA request, then expect somewhere between 60-90 days for a decision.

07-19-2019 , 05:32 PM

#1814

unlucky4some

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelle227

Thanks for posting this. Looking forward to seeing the whole Mireskandari involvement unwound.

07-20-2019 , 12:00 PM

#1815

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,514

I've received some reports about marketing in this thread. Just a reminder to anyone representing any of the clubs, you cannot market on 2+2 without registering as an official room representative with our advertising team. Contact Bobo Fett for details.

For other users, passing on info ITT is fine, but if it crosses the line into shilling, I'll start deleting posts, and if I think you're just a room representative masquerading as a player, infractions or bans are also possible.

07-20-2019 , 12:25 PM

#1816

clivestraddle

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 536

I would like to state for the record I am not an owner / partner nor have any financial interest in any poker room (at this time) - I have acted as an adviser and commentator to many that own but have NEVER charged for this service.

07-21-2019 , 09:25 AM

#1817

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,514

Yeah, clive, that wasn't aimed at you. Even those of you who are affiliated with rooms, it's OK to be posting here as part of the discussion. It's just not OK to market your room without registering with the powers that be.

I don't have any issue with users saying "did you see that room X lowered their fees?" I do have a problem with an unregistered room rep popping in and saying "big PLO game planned at room X tomorrow! Free booze and massages from strippers! Great action! Come out and play!"

Last edited by Garick; 07-21-2019 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Also not aimed at zizek, who just seems to be passing on deals when he sees them

07-21-2019 , 09:30 AM

#1818

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,514

Quote:

Every Friday Night 5/5 PLO at <room name and location redacted>.Doors open at 7pm. Arrive before 8pm get a 100 bonus! 500 high hand bonus every 3hours!Gourmet Meals. Top Shelf Liqour. Table side Massage and waitresses. Follow and DM <redacted> for complete details!!!!

Obviously, that's the extreme end of this sort of marketing, but there have been posts ITT that some folks are pretty sure are from folks affiliated with rooms posing as players just passing on info.

07-21-2019 , 09:56 AM

#1819

sevencard2003

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,642

be aware that the customers who read this forum would like to not have those posts deleted, (95% of the forums readers) so theyll be aware when a great promotion comes along.

07-21-2019 , 10:57 AM

#1820

BulltexasATM

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,684

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

And you might think that was an exaggeration, but here is an actual deleted post, not from this thread, but from this forum, that I found just after I posted the above. It's kind of scary how similar they are.

Obviously, that's the extreme end of this sort of marketing, but there have been posts ITT that some folks are pretty sure are from folks affiliated with rooms posing as players just passing on info.

Do you have more details on the game referenced above? Asking for a friend.

07-21-2019 , 01:15 PM

#1821

clivestraddle

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 536

strippers you say....are they hiring?

07-21-2019 , 08:20 PM

#1822

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,514

That game was not in Texas, folks. Sorry.

Also, the rake tends to be utterly outrageous at underground places like that. Like 10% uncapped, or even worse. Cheaper to just go to the strip club.

07-21-2019 , 08:43 PM

#1823

tangram16

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 139

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

You think? Man...this thread is about to go on a crash diet! Doncha know, you ain't pimpin', you aint tryin!

07-21-2019 , 08:46 PM

#1824

tangram16

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 139

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

That game was not in Texas, folks. Sorry.

Also, the rake tends to be utterly outrageous at underground places like that. Like 10% uncapped, or even worse. Cheaper to just go to the strip club.

I'm sure you can find a game or two, perhaps even more in Dallas or Houston, with those amenities...and that pricing. Myself personally, strippers and poker don't go together well.